Gents,
I am re-thinking my projector setup, and would like to hear from Wideview users on their experience
I currently have, brand-new in the boxes, 3x Benq MW811ST Projectors, and a Matrox TripleHead Digital Edition.
My original plan was for one mega-PC to run the visuals, using the TH2Go and the 3 Projectors.
I have now ordered 3x Benq W1080ST projectors instead, and I am selling the MW811STs.
The only reason i did this is the upgrade to HD resolution, 1280x1024 vs 1920x1080
I don't think it would be feasible to expect one PC, no matter how high the specs are, to run a 5760x1080 screen, and expect frames rates that don't look like a poorly animated South Park episode, so i am looking at 3 Scenery PCs with Wideview, each running one projector.
What I am worried about is the continuity of weather, clouds, and traffic from one Wideview screen to another
I have tested Wideview for my passenger window view, and it seems pretty good, but I am wondering what it is like with 2 views that adjoin each other.
Also, does blending the adjacent views with warping software affect the passing of weather/traffic from screen to screen?
Cheers
Why not switch to X-plane 10? No wideview and no th2go, if you go with 3 pc's...
John
Ben,
Are you using OPUS?
QuoteI don't think it would be feasible to expect one PC, no matter how high the specs are, to run a 5760x1080 screen, and expect frames rates that don't look like a poorly animated South Park episode, so i am looking at 3 Scenery PCs with Wideview, each running one projector.
I have one computer ( Core i7, 6G RAM, Nvidia 660 GPU which has the Surround feature and does not require TH2G) and it runs FS X very well. It will also work with the TH2G but I'm not sure what the max res would be with the new 314 Nvidia drivers.
Harry
I've been using Wideview and WideTraffic with FSX for several years. The weather and the AI are synchronized so that is not an issue. You are correct, while reasonable performance can be gained using a TH2Go and three 1280 x 800 projectors you will be watching a slide show with HD. Plus if you try to wrap the display using a TH2GO you get a stretched image, not a true perspective.
I am presently running WXGA projectors with Wideview and getting in excess of 50 FPS with sliders right and a lot of high impact weather/traffic/add-on airports.
Jon
FYI to the OP.
While of course 3 would be better than 1, and you would be set up for XP10 down the road, I currently run 3 1080P plasmas off one PC that's an i5-3570 OC to 4.2GHz, 8GB Ram and a GTX680. I get 20's on the ground and 70+ at altitude. Not really a slide show anywhere, so I wouldn't be afraid to start with one and move to three as time and money permit. You'll be able to fly with one PC fine.
Quote from: HarryZ on February 25, 2013, 09:25:12 AM
I'm not sure what the max res would be with the new 314 Nvidia drivers.
Harry
I tried the 314 drivers but the installation failed and I had to go back to the old drivers. Probably something to do with my system though rather than flaky drivers but I wonder if anyone else tried them yet.
Maurice
Quote from: Jon Boe on February 25, 2013, 09:26:45 AM
I've been using Wideview and WideTraffic with FSX for several years. The weather and the AI are synchronized so that is not an issue. You are correct, while reasonable performance can be gained using a TH2Go and three 1280 x 800 projectors you will be watching a slide show with HD. Plus if you try to wrap the display using a TH2GO you get a stretched image, not a true perspective.
I am presently running WXGA projectors with Wideview and getting in excess of 50 FPS with sliders right and a lot of high impact weather/traffic/add-on airports.
Jon
Hello Jon,
On your wideview setup do you run dedicated visuals or does one of your visuals also act as the master? I am considering buying one more PC so that I can have dedicated visual computers and have a better performing master rather than trying to have a PC doing both roles as I do now. I think this would also help X-plane as well. I have never gotten good weather or traffic sync on my wideview setup. The weather I can have close but only if I choose static weather instead of trying to run Activesky which I prefer. As for traffic, I many times will get part of a plane on the center with the other half missing on a side monitor. I use Widetraffic and while it syncs some, it doesnt sync all. I suspect somehow some FSX traffic is sneaking in on the sides even though I think I have all the FSX traffic sliders to zero. I also run ultimate traffic on all so that could be the problem. In other words, I have problems syncing weather and traffic in Wideview but not sure of my settings which may be the culprit. X-Plane on the other hand is pretty smooth on syncing everything.
Scott
Hi Scott,
I am running a dedicated PC for the FSX Server. I believe that trying to synch weather using one of the clients as the server will be next to impossible due to the small amount of latency between the two. Whereas if you us a dedicated server the timing is precise at each of the IG's.
Since the sliders on the server can be set to minimum values you don't need a high powered PC for the function. I'm using my 6 year old computer that I used initially with the TH2GO.
I am running Active Sky on the server and Flight Environment X on the clients as all you need are the textures. For AI I am using Ultimate Traffic 2.
Cheers,
Jon
QuoteI tried the 314 drivers but the installation failed and I had to go back to the old drivers. Probably something to do with my system though rather than flaky drivers but I wonder if anyone else tried them yet.
Maurice
Hi Maurice,
I initially got the failure response as did another friend of mine when he tried to load the 314 drivers. Did you use the Custom Advanced installation which removes the older drivers first?
After I got the failure to install message I rebooted my computer and the drivers did indeed get loaded. Not sure how that happened but I have the 314s.
Harry
Im also running the 314 drivers. With FSX. I didn't have any troubles with the install. I haven't noticed any performance difference between the the new and old drivers. The current NvInspector still works as well.
Im currently running a THG on a 4.5ghz overclock on 660Ti and. Using the 1/2 refresh vertical sync option in inspector and locking frames to 30 in game I have smooth flying except for a few microstutters every now and then at airports. Both sliders at normal. Overall still a nice experience.
I tried the wideview route as I was wanting to get the same performance that Jon and Nat were getting with their setups. Running 3 identical computers all overclocked to 4.5 and an i7 920 as the server I was just never able to get the results that they achieved. I always had at least one client that would be a stuttering mess. The client that would not sync would change on each startup so not an individual pc problem. Obviously a network issue that I was never able to nail down. I tried all the suggestions in the wideview forums but was never able to fix.
Im now back to using the triplehead on 1 pc setup and quite content to sit on my hands for the time being. I have 2 more nice systems + 920 server sitting idle that I can throw into the mix anytime. The upfront expense of the other 2 systems as well as the warping software for 3 client + server setup was unfortunate but I have them at the ready for the change to Xplane or if I ever wish to to pursue the FSX/P3D wideview setup again in the future.
Gary
If you want to run in HD and want correct (not stretched) views and smooth imaging in all situations, my opinion is that WidevieW is the (only) way to go. Presently, I have very good experience with 1 server (FSX + Wideview) for 2D panels etc. (but not scenery) and 3 Clients (FSX + Wideview) for scenery only. My setup is 3840 x 800 pixels. I use identical aircrafts on all of my PC's to get a proper alignment between the 3 views. For the PMDG 738NGX plane (which I use at present) it is sufficient to install it on the server. For the clients I only use their aircraft.cfg file (i.e. no complete install).
For top performance you have to use one monitor/projector/view per client as the Wideview manual advises. A continues frame rate of 30 fps is possible with all FSX sliders (except traffic) to the right + PMDG 738NGX + a heavy add-on airport + 1024 x 1024 AS2012 clouds. I believe that my setup could easily cope with HD too, but I did not test it.
WidevieW synchronization of static weather is good. Real-time weather set from within Wideview, I find less successful. I understand so far there is no other way to do it. Hopefully HiFi will come with a solution for that; actually I put the question to them today.
I also tested OpusFSX but I never succeeded in getting smooth imaging on the clients using their Live View. Also real-time weather synchronization on the clients for me was negative. So for me OpusFSX was a no go. The nice thing of WidevieW is that it is well integrated with FSX (Prepar3D) and has a lot of fine tuning options. One of them is IntelliSmooth. It works!
WideTraffic traffic synchronization is a bit ugly since only the standard FSX AI is supported. So traffic generated by (most) add-on airports is not synchronized. OK, I can live with that as long as they don't damage my plane! ;)
Just a last addition: I used Kosta's tweaking guide for FSX fine tuning.
Ref. http://kostasfsworld.wordpress.com/fsx-software-and-hardware-guide/ (http://kostasfsworld.wordpress.com/fsx-software-and-hardware-guide/)
QuoteIm currently running a THG on a 4.5ghz overclock on 660Ti and. Using the 1/2 refresh vertical sync option in inspector and locking frames to 30 in game I have smooth flying except for a few microstutters every now and then at airports. Both sliders at normal. Overall still a nice experience.
Hi Gary,
Out of curiosity, why are you still running TH2G when you have the 660Ti card which has the Surround View feature in it?
Harry
Quote from: Jon Boe on February 25, 2013, 10:28:59 AM
Hi Scott,
I am running a dedicated PC for the FSX Server. I believe that trying to synch weather using one of the clients as the server will be next to impossible due to the small amount of latency between the two. Whereas if you us a dedicated server the timing is precise at each of the IG's.
Since the sliders on the server can be set to minimum values you don't need a high powered PC for the function. I'm using my 6 year old computer that I used initially with the TH2GO.
I am running Active Sky on the server and Flight Environment X on the clients as all you need are the textures. For AI I am using Ultimate Traffic 2.
Cheers,
Jon
Thank you Jon. I suspected I really need the extra PC and you have confirmed it so that is now on my shopping list. It will help x-plane also and I will run the instructor station on it. I want to be able to run XP or FSX at will.
Quote from: HarryZ on February 25, 2013, 03:36:33 PM
[Hi Gary,
Out of curiosity, why are you still running TH2G when you have the 660Ti card which has the Surround View feature in it?
Harry
Its actually one of the easiest things to setup in the cockpit which is nice. As I don't have the hdmi or display port to vga adapters I have just never given it a thought.
Is there a benefit of using surround as opposed to the TH2G in a single pc setup?
Gary
Quote from: Garys on February 26, 2013, 03:06:16 AM
Is there a benefit of using surround as opposed to the TH2G in a single PC setup?
Gary
If there is, I've yet to see it. Surround totally sucks every time you update the drivers and have to redo all the settings to get the surround back even if you do not go for the clean install where it removes the old drivers first. If anybody had a better experience, please share your magic :) .
Maurice
QuoteIts actually one of the easiest things to setup in the cockpit which is nice. As I don't have the hdmi or display port to vga adapters I have just never given it a thought.
Is there a benefit of using surround as opposed to the TH2G in a single pc setup?
Gary
It's a question I asked myself several times before making the change.
The TH2G, I was told, adds a layer of latency as minimal as it may be. I always like to think that the fewer pieces of hardware you can get away with in a sim, the better. I also feel that using the technology that Nvidia built into their own GPU would be better than what Matrox has to do with the TH2G that has to work with several video cards.
I wont' deny the hassle of reconfiguring the 3 projectors in Surround View when you do a driver change. But for whatever reason, it was easier than the original configuration setup with the 310 drivers.
Maurice mentioned that he didn't see any benefit from TH2G vs Surround View but I did in my set-up... a slightly sharper image and I ended up with 5760 (1920x3) x 1080 with the new 314 drivers. I wish I would have tried the 5760 level with the TH2G to see what would have happened.
I, like most simmers, can't seem to leave things alone for a long period of time when they are working just fine. I just have to try the latest "gadget" and see how it works. And that, often, leads to a lot of choice vocabulary when I discover the change didn't quite go as I thought it would!! The latest challenge I'm going to try is a relatively new device called Crucial Adrenaline. It involves a 50GB SSD drive that with special added software, creates a 50GB cache for your regular HD, vastly improving the performance of not only FS X but your entire operating system....all for about $ 100.00 Stay tuned.
Harry
Haven't owned a TH2G in a couple years, but did they get rid of the need for monitors that would do 59Hz for 5760 x 1080? That was a pain that I'm glad is done.
All I ever used was WidevieW so I have nothing to compare it to but I really liked it.
I had the main FS server running two instrument displays and the forward view, and three other client computers running four additional outside views.
This was really difficult to set up well since three of the five monitors were different sizes. I managed to get a pretty good view if you were sitting in the pilots seat. Any off-angle would skew the view for an observer looking from a side angle or over my shoulder.
I used that well-aligned flight as the default flight always, and relocated the aircraft from there. I think it was Newcastle or Dublin or Glasgow. Somewhere in the UK.
The initial setup for my Sim is with FSX and Sim-Avionics - each on separate computers. The FSX computer uses a nvidia GTX680 GPU that supports Surround. However, I initially set this up using a digital Matrox TH2G, which yeilds a nice resolution across a 3-monitor LCD display of 5040 x 1050 x 32. I can't complain about the display quality running Megascenery SoCal in an unlimited framerate mode, with the recommended Settings tweaks for FSX.
As has been eluded to by Maurice, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" I too have been tempted to try out nvidia Surround, but I am concerned about such changes to a setup that seems to working fine.
I'm not exactly sure why the resolution comes up as 5040 x 1050, but that's what I get. I wonder how this would display on an HD projector setup. I mention this because I notice that BenQ has introduced a new short throw projector with zoom capability. It is their W1080ST model, for around $1200. This projector supports the 1080 resolution. I'm not sure how using Wideview would affect this setup or display quality/performance.
Perhaps to stay on track with this thread, is anyone using HD projectors with either Wideview or TH2G, and what are the display results?
Mike
Quote from: sagrada737 on February 26, 2013, 05:31:35 AM
The initial setup for my Sim is with FSX and Sim-Avionics - each on separate computers. The FSX computer uses a nvidia GTX680 GPU that supports Surround. However, I initially set this up using a digital Matrox TH2G, which yeilds a nice resolution across a 3-monitor LCD display of 5040 x 1050 x 32. I can't complain about the display quality running Megascenery SoCal in an unlimited framerate mode, with the recommended Settings tweaks for FSX.
As has been eluded to by Maurice, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" I too have been tempted to try out nvidia Surround, but I am concerned about such changes to a setup that seems to working fine.
I'm not exactly sure why the resolution comes up as 5040 x 1050, but that's what I get. I wonder how this would display on an HD projector setup. I mention this because I notice that BenQ has introduced a new short throw projector with zoom capability. It is their W1080ST model, for around $1200. This projector supports the 1080 resolution. I'm not sure how using Wideview would affect this setup or display quality/performance.
Perhaps to stay on track with this thread, is anyone using HD projectors with either Wideview or TH2G, and what are the display results?
Mike
Hi Mike,
I used to work with the TH2GO in a 3 x 27" full HD monitor setup. It worked great. The only problem was the low frame rate
at certain conditions caused by 1+3 active FSX cockpit views. So I had to go back to 1 stretched view. That's the reason I switched to WidevieW for my projector setup explained in this topic earlier. Although I do not operate in Full HD anymore, I am convinced that WidevieW will do as well in Full HD as it performs for me now. Also consider the positive experience Scott has with his WidevieW Full HD setup so far.
A last remark to whom it may concern: I do not believe that a projector with a native resolution of 1280 x 800 pixels (which I have) is capable to produce a higher resolution image. Although it will accept a higher resolution signal, the result will still be a 1280 x 800 p. image. If WXGA projectors would be able to produce true HD images why than the necessity to make Full HD projectors? Correct me if I'am wrong. (Ref. http://www.bambooav.com/information-about-projector-resolution.html (http://www.bambooav.com/information-about-projector-resolution.html)).
Quote from: sluyt050 on February 26, 2013, 07:30:32 AM
A last remark to whom it may concern: I do not believe that a projector with a native resolution of 1280 x 800 pixels (which I have) is capable to produce a higher resolution image. Although it will accept a higher resolution signal, the result will still be a 1280 x 800 p. image. If WXGA projectors would be able to produce true HD images why than the necessity to make Full HD projectors? Correct me if I'am wrong. (Ref. http://www.bambooav.com/information-about-projector-resolution.html (http://www.bambooav.com/information-about-projector-resolution.html)).
After more testing one more time, I totally agree with this. When you use a higher resolution than the native resolution, it does make a difference and for some, it might look better but in my experience, there was a definite loss of clarity. This may be very subjective but as much as I was hoping that the image would be sharper, I have concluded that for me at least that is not the case.
As you said, the projector has a definite number of pixels and the projector's electronics condenses the extra pixels and creates an image that still matches its native resolution (number of pixels). But I guess that depending on how good the electronics is, it could well be that some brands may be better at this conversion process and produce an image that is somewhat better although the manual clearly states that the best image is achieved with the native resolution.
Bottom line, try a higher resolution and see whether you like it better or not. Easy enough to try :)
Maurice
The PJ would post process if fed a higher res image than its capable of displaying. Now some units have very good post processing, others are, well, crap, so what looks great for one and not for the other may be a matter of the chip in your projector....Pixelworks, Marvell Qdeo, etc...
Thanks for the replies guys.
I think i will just have to try it and see how it goes.
I don't have any plans to go to Xplane at this stage, as my system is designed around Prosim737, which as yet is not fully working with Xplane.
I will be running P3D.
Quote from: sagrada737 on February 26, 2013, 05:31:35 AM
I mention this because I notice that BenQ has introduced a new short throw projector with zoom capability. It is their W1080ST model, for around $1200. This projector supports the 1080 resolution. I'm not sure how using Wideview would affect this setup or display quality/performance.
Mike, as I stated in my original post, I have already ordered 3 of these units which was the reason for me making this thread :)
QuoteA last remark to whom it may concern: I do not believe that a projector with a native resolution of 1280 x 800 pixels (which I have) is capable to produce a higher resolution image. Although it will accept a higher resolution signal, the result will still be a 1280 x 800 p. image. If WXGA projectors would be able to produce true HD images why than the necessity to make Full HD projectors? Correct me if I'am wrong.
It was me who made the resolution comment.
Projectors are indeed capable of producing higher resolutions than their native level but there can be a price to pay for that. I had a BenQ unit that had native 800x600 native res. But I flew it using 1024x800 and did indeed get that resolution. But as the sales person at Projectors Canada told me, the minute you ask a projector to go above its native level, it has to stretch the pixels to fill in the gaps and you can get a mixed bag of results. Often you will get an increase in bluriness but it depends on the quality of the projector.
As well, once you get beyond what a particular projector's capabilities are, you will get a blank screen with the message "beyond unit's capability" or something similar.
The current BenQ 814 units I have obviously can go beyond their native 1280x800, in my case 1920x1080. And my visual is definitely sharper and clearer than anything I have ever experienced. I'm going to call my contact at Projector's Canada and see what info I can obtain about the technical happenings in this case and will get back to the forum.
Harry
Still not entirely happy with state of my X-plane setup I also am running Wideview. Can Jon Boe, Nat or one of the other Wideview users answer a question? If I want Ultimate Traffic working with Widetraffic do I actually run UT2 on the client computers or do I just install it but not let it load at startup. I assume UT2 adds airplane textures so I installed on all 5 of my computers but I assume you don't actually run on the clients and only allow to run on the server. Is this correct? Note my server is still also acting as a visual also but it has 6 cores and a 680 card so I can't imaging it should have any trouble. I still have to mess with Intellismooth on the other four clients. Be nice to get this dialed in...
Scott
Quote from: XOrionFE on August 31, 2013, 02:52:15 PM
Still not entirely happy with state of my X-plane setup I also am running Wideview. Can Jon Boe, Nat or one of the other Wideview users answer a question? If I want Ultimate Traffic working with Widetraffic do I actually run UT2 on the client computers or do I just install it but not let it load at startup. I assume UT2 adds airplane textures so I installed on all 5 of my computers but I assume you don't actually run on the clients and only allow to run on the server. Is this correct? Note my server is still also acting as a visual also but it has 6 cores and a 680 card so I can't imaging it should have any trouble. I still have to mess with Intellismooth on the other four clients. Be nice to get this dialed in...
Scott
Hi Scott,
I do not have UT2 but this ref. may help: http://www.wideview.it/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1130&SearchTerms=ut2 (http://www.wideview.it/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1130&SearchTerms=ut2)
From what I can remember from my own experiments, it's more difficult to get the synchronisation right if you use the server for visuals too.
GDay Scott
I dont have UT2 (only FTX AI Traffic).
My feeling would be that you should only have the AI aircraft installed on your clients.
Your Client traffic settings in FSX should all be set to ZERO, with only the Server traffic
turned on. (Looks like Jon Boe had it working)
Hope it works out.
Nat
Hey guys,
I think I figured this out yesterday. I have UT2 installed on all. I only allow it to load on the master and don't allow it to run on the others. Widetraffic then syncs it correctly from the master to the slaves and seems to work quite well. Weather still is horrible syncing unfortunately but I got all else smoothed out. Then after hours of work on this I finally get to the point where I can do a full flight from KLAS to KLAX. Halfway there my right side view started showing what looked like a smoke trail (contrail) running right out the right wing tip and a few minutes later the master FSX machine dumped with the typical FSX Fatal error middle finger in your face message. I just about picked up that sledge hammer to smash that computer to pieces.
Man this hobby sucks at times. I finally decided that for me at least...Wideview is just way too much effort in order to get 5 screens running right at 1080. X-Plane is so easy by comparison. I have come to the conclusion of this testing and have gone back to a surround view with three screens for FSX running off one computer much like the projector setups. Frames can get down to the low teens in heavy airport scenery but otherwise acceptable most of the time with the 680 running it.
I took one of my computers off the cockpit to run a VC setup for PMDG birds (737 and 777) and will continue to await a stable and more complete X-Plane/Avionics combo which I hope will be the case within 6 months.
One other thought on what I have learned...for a surround visual in FSX the least expensive setup from a dollar and time perspective still appears to be 3 projectors and a single albeit powerful FSX computer. You won't get the clarity of monitors but there is always a give and take with any setup. If you want the clarity of monitors go with 3 60 or 70" screens on one computer and give up the back window views.
Finally, after also breaking a yoke column yesterday and having to spend 4 hours fixing it I caution anyone getting into this hobby to limit what they do. Stick with a desktop VC setup for the ultimate in maintaining your sanity and if you must brave the world of 737 cockpit building....buy a Jetmax and 3 large LCD screens and call it a day :-).
Scott
Hi Scott,
I'm glad that you got the UT issues sorted. What I did was install UT on just the server PC, then move a copy of the UT folder generated in SimObjects to the three IG's. Then add the simobjects path from the server fsx.cfg file as shown below.
SimObjectPaths.6=SimObjects\UT2 Aircraft
You get the same result without having to load UT2 on each PC, then shut it down on the clients.
Regarding the Wideview weather on your wideview weather settings what are you using? I have been using real world weather for a long time and while I get a re-synch or two during a flight it's not nearly as bad as what you are reporting. I am using Active Sky on the Server and the textures from Ultimate Environment X for the IG's, therefore generating no conflict in the weather as no weather programs are being run on the IG's.
Also, if you have VHHX loaded do you have the BGL to add the UT traffic to Kai Tak?
Cheers,
Jon
Quote from: Jon Boe on September 01, 2013, 07:06:32 AM
Hi Scott,
I'm glad that you got the UT issues sorted. What I did was install UT on just the server PC, then move a copy of the UT folder generated in SimObjects to the three IG's. Then add the simobjects path from the server fsx.cfg file as shown below.
SimObjectPaths.6=SimObjects\UT2 Aircraft
You get the same result without having to load UT2 on each PC, then shut it down on the clients.
Regarding the Wideview weather on your wideview weather settings what are you using? I have been using real world weather for a long time and while I get a re-synch or two during a flight it's not nearly as bad as what you are reporting. I am using Active Sky on the Server and the textures from Ultimate Environment X for the IG's, therefore generating no conflict in the weather as no weather programs are being run on the IG's.
Also, if you have VHHX loaded do you have the BGL to add the UT traffic to Kai Tak?
Cheers,
Jon
Thank you Jon,
That is great info on the UT setup.
As for weather, I have tried each of the options and the best so far for me was the selection for interpolation in Wideview. I have REX loaded on each but only for the textures. The weather engine is ASE which actually runs on a seperate computer through Simconnect. It is usually good across 4 of 5 but always seems to have one that is out of sync. And the one out of sync changes so not specific to any one computer. I have seen others report this on various forums as well.
A big difference is that my main FSX computer is also the front view which I know is not recommended so I am probably bringing some pain on myself but I just cannot fathom buying another computer for this setup. That would be a total of 8 pcs to run the cockpit. Yikes.
Scott
Scott, from my own experience I'm pretty sure that your problems with Wideview are caused by the server having also to produce a visual. I only could check this for 1280 x 800 resolution and 3 clients. My setup is quite stable and runs smooth up to now (knock knock). In case of full HD and 5 clients I think it is of utmost importance to relieve your server from producing scenery. I agree that 1 FSX view with 1 PC is simple but you have to take the geometrical distortion on the side screens for granted. :2cw:
Quote from: sluyt050 on September 01, 2013, 09:34:28 AM
Scott, from my own experience I'm pretty sure that your problems with Wideview are caused by the server having also to produce a visual. I only could check this for 1280 x 800 resolution and 3 clients. My setup is quite stable and runs smooth up to now (knock knock). In case of full HD and 5 clients I think it is of utmost importance to relieve your server from producing scenery. I agree that 1 FSX view with 1 PC is simple but you have to take the geometrical distortion on the side screens for granted. :2cw:
Actually, there is no distortion because I still use 3 undocked windows each with a different fov just like a projector setup. Only difference is that you cannot go all the way around but only 150 degrees on 3 60" screens running 50 degree each...but still off one computer with surround. I just don't get nearly the frame rates I would if running individual computers and Wideview.
Your right of course about the need for a dedicated server for Wideview. I think that is a must based on all of the comments from you, Jon, and Nat and my own experiences. No short cutting this...
Scott
Scott sorry for the delay...
Ive been chasing my WideView tail since building new computers...
In the end the ONLY thing that gave me smooth results was Unlimited
frame rate on Server and Clients, contrary to what others are experiencing.
I also tried the Center Visual as the Server and there was no discernible difference
in performance (bear in my mind all three computers are 3770K @4.5Ghz!)
The Widvew settings are almost default + Booster + Force TCP Nagle.
As for Cloud syncing, "WX theme" works perfect as does "User defined" If controlled
by Sim-Avionics IOS.
Nat
I am very satisfied with my WideView setup.
I have a dedicated WideView server and three clients (each are nearly three year old I7 quad cores without any overclocking or tweaking so nothing really special there).......
I find that a dedicated server is a must for optimal performance.
As with Nat I have found that setting the frame rate at "Unlimited" on server and clients definitely works best for me. I have gone back and forth on that many times and am completely certain on that. I am using FSX real world weather set to update every 15 minutes.
Terrain display and UT AI traffic always sync very well....no stutters for terrain, some slight stuttering for AI traffic. It all works solidly....frankly I cannot remember even one instance of WideView crashing. The only minor issue is that sometimes individual clouds do not sync. This happens about 5% of the time during a flight and usually only when there is a heavy weather pattern. Frankly I rarely even notice so it works for me. General weather patterns sync very well (cloud layers etc.).
Fred
I am very satisfied with Wideview smoothness too and use UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=30 in FSX for my dedicated server and 3 clients. However, combined with the Nvidia VSync tweak (works only for full screen!). My projectors refresh rate is 60 Hz. It is thoroughly explained and tested by Kosta in his FSX/P3D Software and Hardware Guide ref. http://kostasfsworld.wordpress.com/fsx-software-and-hardware-guide/. (http://kostasfsworld.wordpress.com/fsx-software-and-hardware-guide/.)
Quote from: sluyt050 on September 05, 2013, 08:55:25 AM
I am very satisfied with Wideview smoothness too and use UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=30 in FSX for my dedicated server and 3 clients. However, combined with the Nvidia VSync tweak (works only for full screen!). My projectors refresh rate is 60 Hz. It is thoroughly explained and tested by Kosta in his FSX/P3D Software and Hardware Guide ref. http://kostasfsworld.wordpress.com/fsx-software-and-hardware-guide/. (http://kostasfsworld.wordpress.com/fsx-software-and-hardware-guide/.)
Strange! I don't use Wideview but I tried the Kosta tweak both in my old sim with 3 undocked windows and now with one PC and one view and the frame rates are much worse in large busy airports in most cases as compared to using unlimited fps.
Seems like I am the only one not loving this tweak for some reason or am I?
Maurice
In the contrary Maurice, Nat and Fred use unlimited frame rate as well. Anyway, I will test it on a busy place to watch the difference.
You know, with a modern powerful cpu, the best
tweaks I found are NOTHING. Most tweaks are for older
cpus. If you ever get tired of tweaking and tweaking,
delete your FSX.cfg and breathe :)
Nat
Guys
Great discussion by the way. If I may add my small contribution to the mix!
I have wideview running smooth as silk with very high settings. The server is running an outside view also. For me the biggest gain was using kostas tweaks and running all pcs at 30 fps locked. I have now disabled wideview weather and am testing fsglobal real weather. Early days but initial tests show an improvement in wideview performance.
Check my posts for updates.
Good luck
Mark
Nat,
You said earlier in the thread that you added another 3 3770k pc's to the mix.
Can you please elaborate at to what Motherboard/Vid card you used.
Thanks
Les
Quote from: melnato on September 05, 2013, 02:10:35 PM
You know, with a modern powerful cpu, the best
tweaks I found are NOTHING. Most tweaks are for older
cpus. If you ever get tired of tweaking and tweaking,
delete your FSX.cfg and breathe :)
Nat
With all due respect Nat, I disagree with you since FSX is not capable of taking full advantage of modern cpu's and gpu's. Imo Kosta proved by numerous tests on nVidia based systems that internal frame rate limiting together with other tweaks he describes, offer better performance and smoothness. One might say that FSX frame rate limiting would put a burden on the cpu. Here in a sense I agree with you that a fast cpu will help greatly. I also agree that deleting your FSX.CFG could help but I would do this only as a last step in case of a serious issue that cannot be solved, or just to create a fresh start for tweaking.
I agree. After years of testing fsx with various tweaks etc, the biggest improvements by far are with the Kosta tweak. I actually only use Bufferpools=0 and the rest is down to nvidia inspector. I can confirm the smoothness is not down to one CPU/motherboard/ram combination as I use a mixture of specs in my network. I do however recommend the nvidia 670gtx 2gb ram which is the only constant (great card).
My software consists of FSX sp1 and 2, a large selection of UK 2000 airports, Orbx airports and global, Rex textures ( copied and pasted throughout the network pcs) and only a couple of payware aircraft over the fsx default.
Fsx settings consist of all scenery sliders on high, no traffic as I use vatsim online, I do use Orbx Go utility to set my config at 4096 and wideview= true plus startup my fsx. It's a nice piece of software that alters your fsx.cfg just before fsx starts, thus giving you many options to change the config without having to manually edit it. I also use LOD=6.5 through the same utility which seems to suit my system.
I'll post up a couple of screen shots of my wideview server/client setup later today (uk time) so you guys can compare with yours.
Mark
Hi Edward,
I think we can all agree, that there is no single solution that works for every setup.
Some see better results with locked frame rates, some(I) get the opposite.
Some see benefits with Kosta's tweaks, some don't.
I was just adding my results to the discussion, and that with 3 networked 3770K's @4.5Ghz,
I get the best fluidity so far, so why tweak? :)
I still believe with powerful CPU's you don't 'need' to tweak any further (or as much as we used to. People usually tweak because they need to get more performance, true?(I was serial tweaker, trust me!).
Its like racing a stock V8 against a supercharged 4 cylinder I guess, the 4cyl needs a lot of
work to compete...?
Im still open to experimenting...what would you guys say are the 2 or 3 best tweaks to try?
@Les, I always use Gigabyte MB's (the EasyTune feature is the best), plus current GPU are 660Ti's.
Nat
Thanks Nat, I like the serial tweaker 8)!
As Mark said, an important part is done by nVidia inspector. Concerning FSX, for me the trio 'Bufferpools, UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT and VSync' are most important in terms of performance and smoothness.
(I use i7 and i5 overclocked quad cores on ASUS mobo's and Geforce GTX 660 & 680).
Here's my wideview configs.
An important consideration here is that we are sort of mixing apples and oranges with this discussion.....that is, what may be optimal for FSX nominally may not be optimal for WideView network performance.
I do most of my flying in the Northeast USA corridor. My home airports are JFK/EWR/LGA including corresponding airport scenery addons and photorealistic scenery that covers much of the area that I fly in. This is arguably the ultimate stress test situation for FSX. I have read elsewhere that using "unlimited" FPS for WideView can be an advantage in such cases. Again, it works for me as I have tested such a number of times. My actual FPS on the ground at JFK rarely dips below 23, usually somewhat higher. Once in the air I am at 50+. No system crashes ever. This is with no tweaking and no overclocking.
But I agree that FSX has always been very system specific regarding optimal configuration.
Fred
Fred
Agreed, but I have found after numerous tests and many hours that there is correlation between a smooth, well performing fsx and wideview. Since setting up fsx with nvidia inspector and the tweaks mentioned below it's become a different animal, well behaved!
I know that the magic fix may not work for everyone's rig, but for me and a lot of other users out there it does.
I should mention that I used to be a TH2go user and swore by it, but after using wideview there was no turning back! Yes you have to install everything multiple times (5x in my case), buy more hardware, buy another house and sell the kids, but the results are worth it. Not to mention the FOV and perspective from the cockpit which was never quite right with the TH2Go.
I guess to sum up, whatever you got, if it works for you, that's all that matters.
Nice to meet someone else who's happy with their Pit!
Good luck
Mark
Hi Guys,
Mark and Fred I fully agree. Really the bottom line is what you are happy with is all that counts. Its very hard for comparisons to be made when we all know rigs perform differently
even those that are identical.
Sometimes striving to achieve what others have done can just be share hell.
I to am a long time Wideview user and at max had 9 views with fs9
Really do like Wideview and agree the xtra agro is worth it if you are serious.
Les
Mark....Just to keep the record accurate......
I do use Nvidia Inspector but no other tweaks. And yes, I agree that does make a difference.
Fred
Darn it you guys....
Your going to have me firing up my FSX installations again! I had all but given up on it and made up my mind but you guys suck me back in.....
Scott
Sorry Scott ; )
Mark
Tried your Wideview settings today Mark using 3 of my 5 computers to begin with and actually worked quite nicely. I still get jitters on the clients and lag especially when turning while taxiing but better than it was. I was running in LAS scenery and my framerates where all in the 20-30s on the ground (all systems set to unlimited and Nvidia Inspector set to half the sync using Nick Needham's recommendations). I havent tried Kostas but I assume they are similiar to Nicks? Anyway, needs a little more tweaking but liking it so far. Looking at full FTX Global at 1080p on each 60" display with REX textures is really a site to behold. Had a nice flight from LAS to SNA in gorgeous sunset conditions with just perfect weather and clouds to fly in. Sweet...
Scott
Scott
Promising stuff. I think you'll get a smoother experience if you use the Kosta tweaks. Mainly, Bufferpools=0, SGSS – Sparse Grid SuperSampling setting (this one is my favourite to kill the shimmering),
Others. [JOBSCHEDULER] AffinityMask=14
[GRAPHICS] HIGHMEMFIX=1
Also a must if running full screen.
VSYNC TWEAK – FULL SCREEN
A thing worth mentioning here is a new discovery on the Hardware Video Forums about new Nvidia VSync.
This tweak brings unparalleled smoothness with the locked frame rate at 30fps.
In short:
1) identify your monitor refresh, and if it's 60hz...
2) set locked 30fps in FSX FPS and see that you get it!
3) set Nvidia Inspector like mine when it comes to VSync – ½ refresh rate
This tweak only works in full screen. It does not work in windowed.
Here's the link for anyone reading this post.
http://kostasfsworld.wordpress.com/fsx-software-and-hardware-guide/ (http://kostasfsworld.wordpress.com/fsx-software-and-hardware-guide/)
Weather wise, I'm using FSGlobal real weather, which supports wideview and releases some resources back over to it. I find I get a smoother flight with wideview weather switched off. You've probably read the posts on here and seen the videos.
Let me know how you progress.
Mark
I can confirm Marks settings for 100%, it's my experience too that they work very well. FSGRW will be implemented soon (quite busy now with finishing my platform and expecting FDS Shell, MIP & OVH panels to arrive soon).
Edward
Sounds like a nice pit you're building there.
Are you buying the FDS liners also?
Post some pics of your progress.
Regards
Mark
Quote from: markfire on September 15, 2013, 11:46:26 PM
Edward
Sounds like a nice pit you're building there.
Are you buying the FDS liners also?
Post some pics of your progress.
Regards
Mark
I am happy with the results so far and yes liners and rudder panels [captains side only) are included.
I will post my progress in a new topic (as I did for the control columns).
Cheers,
Mark,
I just wanted to say a BIG HUGE THANK YOU.
I used the Kosta tweaks along with your wideview settings and my wideview setup is now running smoothly and beautifully for the first time. That combined with the FSGRW weather generation and sync has just brought my whole sim new FSX life. Combining all that with Orbx FTx Global and regions I have and it is an absolutely stunning world on 5 60" displays. Weather using rex and FSGRW is amazing. I have a few more tweaks to make sure textures and settings for FTX and REX are all matched and a few more adjustments to zoom and i think I am all dialed in.
Video will follow.....
Thank you again and I owe you one...
Scott
Scott
Great to hear you had some success! All i did was point you in the right direction : )
look fwd to seeing the video
Mark
Here are a couple more videos with the new settings running around in Vegas Scenery with FS Global Weather.
This is the best my setup has ever run with Wideview and I am ecstatic. I hope you enjoy.
Scott
http://youtu.be/zbauFb1SKy0 (http://youtu.be/zbauFb1SKy0)
http://youtu.be/wJ-3Fc-Vrpw (http://youtu.be/wJ-3Fc-Vrpw)
Thanks Scott, brilliant video. It finally all comes together inclusive real-time weather.
In the fsx.cfg file, the wideview aspect should this be set to true or false when using wideview ?
And is this the solution for a perfect horizon when turning left or right in the air ?
Hi Phil
Set to true.
Ok thank you, for your 5 tv's are you also using 5 computers for the outside views ?
Yes. Four i5 pcs for the clients and an i7 for the server/centre view.
Quote from: phil on November 29, 2013, 09:17:46 AM
In the fsx.cfg file, the wideview aspect should this be set to true or false when using wideview ?
And is this the solution for a perfect horizon when turning left or right in the air ?
IMO it should be set to
FALSE assuming that you use landscape views. I have a 210 deg. FOV setup using 3 scenery FSX/WideView PC's driving 3 projectors producing a 16:10 landscape image each.
In general (Ref. Windowmaker tool):
If windows are wider than they are tall, set Wideviewaspect=FALSE
If windows are taller than they are wide, set Wideviewaspect=TRUE
I also thought that it must be set to false. Do you use the virtual cockpit view or the cockpit view without the instruments for the outside views ?
Quote from: phil on November 29, 2013, 04:24:16 PM
I also thought that it must be set to false. Do you use the virtual cockpit view or the cockpit view without the instruments for the outside views ?
2D cockpit view but disabled so scenery only.
For the zoom settings, isn't 1.00 the best setting for the outside views, i will try it on 3pc's today and 3 screens. If this works then i will 2 more pc's to get the side views.
At this moment i'm running fs9 with 5 tv's on 1 pc, 2 graphic cards, and have the 5 different outside views.
Phil
Quote from: phil on November 29, 2013, 10:59:55 PM
For the zoom settings, isn't 1.00 the best setting for the outside views, i will try it on 3pc's today and 3 screens. If this works then i will 2 more pc's to get the side views.
At this moment i'm running fs9 with 5 tv's on 1 pc, 2 graphic cards, and have the 5 different outside views.
Phil
Your zoom factor is determined by the number of views (5 in your case) and the total Field Of View. Suppose you choose a total VOF of 200 deg. (so 40 deg. per view), your zoom factor becomes: 0.829578719 (calculated by the Window maker tool). The total VOF depends on how you arrange your tv's.
Ref. Window maker tool: http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=469 (http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=469) (you have to logon).
Good luck with your setup!
Guys
You are getting confused with projector settings and wideview (the program)
I don't know about Fs9, but FSX should be set to wideview=true when using tv's and multiple pcs
The zoom factor will be around 1.60 for 1920x1080 resolution.
You dont need windowmaker or any other tool than wideview.
I use the Jetstream model that has no VC just outside view.
Believe me, I know!
Quote from: markfire on November 29, 2013, 11:47:20 PM
Guys
You are getting confused with projector settings and wideview (the program)
I don't know about Fs9, but FSX should be set to wideview=true when using tv's and multiple pcs
The zoom factor will be around 1.60 for 1920x1080 resolution.
You dont need windowmaker or any other tool than wideview.
I use the Jetstream model that has no VC just outside view.
Believe me, I know!
With all due respect Mark, but I think I am not confused!
As I said before, I have a 210 deg. FOV FSX/WideView setup running on 3 scenery only clients controlled by a FSX/WideView server. I use 3 x 16:10 1280x800p ultra short throw projectors. FSX Wideviewaspect is set to FALSE. Zoom factor=0.431217809 derived from Window maker. I also use the Jetstream model together with ProSim. I start FSX by means of a saved .FLT file with the correct view angles. Also WideView has to be setup with these angles.
What can I say more? Everything runs fine and my views align perfectly.
Yes you are right with using projectors but our friend I believe is using wideview and tv's.
Very different beasts!
I think he has all the info he needs for both setups : )
Quote from: markfire on November 30, 2013, 12:25:44 AM
Yes you are right with using projectors but our friend I believe is using wideview and tv's.
Very different beasts!
I think he has all the info he needs for both setups : )
Hi Mark,
What could be the difference between tv's and projectors in terms of image geometry? I opted for 85" flat projection screens for certain reasons. For me these are just big (relatively bad) tv's.
Ok i will try to setup the views today, i have 37 inch flat tv screens
Phil
Edward
If you look in the latest wideview manual you'll notice that for using monitors/tv's the wideview=true needs to be set to give you the right Fov in conjunction with the zoom to give the right perspective from the cockpit and to get the horizon level.
With projectors you are using the same basic theory but to get the Fov with only three screens you need to use some more complex calcs. I'm using five screens to get 180 degrees 0, -45, 45, -90, 90 where as you are using three.
Are you also using undocked windows or just using a seperate cockpit view driven by a seperate pc on each projector.
Mike,
I am using separate views each driven by 1 Client. So the angles I use are -70, 0 and 70 deg.
I admit that I did not experiment with tv's and give you the benefit of the doubt. However, with my present knowledge I cannot imagine the difference between a tv screen and a projector screen. The VOF of the tv screen is determined by the distance to the eye and the width of the screen as applies for a projection screen too IMO. In both cases the cockpit eyepoint has to be positioned in the right spot. So it's a complete other story than sitting in front of 3 monitors on your desktop.
Anyway, I am keen to hear Phil's results.
I believe you have to take into account throw ratio to width of view also with projectors. Which is a bit more involved than a fixed aspect ratio of a tv/projector
Interesting stuff though : )
Ongoing story, no the throw ratio is not involved whatsoever. Actually it's quite simple.
Guys you're overcomplicating this.
ViewViewAspect only effects how zoom translates to the view.
When this its to False, zoom to view translation is based on the width of the viewport. When it's set to True, height of the viewport is used instead.
In other words, when set to False, you need to zoom out more to see the same amount of outside view as when set toTrue.
It's been years since I checked it, but do try it...
Nat
Nat
Correct, if you remember when using wideview aspect with triple head to go you had to set it to false else the sides would be stretched! because you are using one window. By setting it to false whilst using wideview (program) i found i could'nt get the right perspective (zoom) to align the horizon, then i read the manual : ) and it says set it to wide, the rest is history, sorted! I have just checked my settings and i use a zoom factor of 1.80 with five 40inch HD tv's to get the right view out the cockpit window whilst having all the horizons lined up. The zoom will change depending on what size TV/monitor you use.
I need to do minor adjustmends with shift-enter or shift-backspace, but when saving it in fsx, shuting down and then restart it, the adjustmends are gone. What to do here ?
Phil
After you get your views lined up, other than the server I go into wideview setup and untick the box (top left) that sets the view angle. Then go back to your flight and save it. When you reload your flight the view angle should be ok. Don't forget to name all the set flights on different pc's the same name. When you start up the server you can then choose the named flight and reload or setup lots of different flights with different setting and load straight from wideview on the server.
So that is only the clients pc's ?
I have on the server the Fex clouds installed with Opus weather, wich folder do i need to copy to the clients so that they have the same cloud textures ?
Phil
Yes just the clients. Leave the server at its default forward view.
For textures I believe they are copied over to the FSX textures folder. I have used Rex cloud textures on the server and copied over to the clients.
I'm not in front of my PC at present but I'm sure it's the world/texture folder in FSX. If you have identical installs on server and clients just compare the folders. Or the manual May say where the textures are put.
Phil
From the manual.
Finally, please consider that changing just the view angle is normally not enough, but you need to set also the zoom in Flight Simulator. The correct zoom factor to use depends on view orientation and monitor's position, further information on zoom is supplied later in this chapter. To change the zoom, press SHIFT and + (plus) or – (mins) in Flight Simulator (the zoom cannot be changed via WidevieW). The zoom information is saved in the current flight, so you will not have to set the zoom each time.
IMPORTANT! The suggested zoom value of 1.2 is relative to monitors having an aspect ratio of 4:3 (for example with a native resolution of 1600x1200). Monitors having different aspect ratios, for example 16:9 at 1920x1080, will require a zoom of 1.45 for the same view orientation angles suggested before, providing the option WideViewAspect=TRUE is present in the [Display] section of FSX.CFG (it is advised to set this option to TRUE for any wide aspect monitor, also for a 16:10 --- you can find FSX.CFG inside %appdata%\microsoft\fsx and you can browse here by typing %appdata%\microsoft\fsx in Internet Explorer, like for a website).
If the excessive zoom produce blurred scenery (you are actually seeing very far away), you can use narrower view angles (for example 65° and -65° for front-right and front-left views), so you can zoom-out, for example to 1.00.
INTERESTING VARIANTS Wide(R)vieW - A configuration idea by Gerard Salden
The following idea can be used to make the cockpit larger.
Normally you have to choose between a projector or a WidevieW setup. The nice thing about a projector is that it can fill the whole view for 2 pilots and WidevieW couldn't, because of the angles of the monitors. You would need about 35" monitors to make the circle wide enough to accommodate 2 pilots !!! But using video projectors you loose the side views... unless you buy 3 or 5 projectors... so, how to find a solution for this dilemma ? As you can see normally, the monitors are standing in an angle of 45 degrees... but... why not change the amount of degrees to less then 45 ? For example, for a five monitors setup, the "heading" could be set from 0.0 to -45 , -22.5 , 22.5 and 45 degrees.
The only additional thing you have to do is change the ZOOM using the FSX defined keys. The more monitors you add the higher the numbers for the zoom, but also the more real the view will be. The max you can do is about 7 to make an half a circle. So now you can make the monitor setup wider with each monitor you add and for cockpit-builders there will be enough space for sitting in it instead of sitting in front of it. With 4 monitors it is wide enough for the cockpit of a ltitle commercial plane and with 5 or more monitors it is wide enough for the cockpit of a real big commercial plane like the 777 or even the 747. And with this way you zoom in on the scenery , making it larger and even more realistic. With 4 monitors the runway is starting to look as a real runway and with 5 monitors it looks almost as wide as a real one.
The zoom factor can be calculated as follows: Angle of the monitors towards each other X zoom = 56.25 ...... example : angle between the monitors = 30 degrees ---------| the zoom will be 56.25 / 30 = 1.875 , so it will be 1.85 or 1.90 angle between the monitors = 45 degrees ----------| the zoom will be 56.25 / 45 = 1.25
Please note that sometime it is necessary to add or subtract 0.05 from the resulting zoom factor. Just try on your setup and see what happens...
May be helpful.
Phil, I am very eager to learn the result of your setup, particularly the 5 monitor setup. I looked everything over concerning the correctness of the Window Maker Tool and for me it stands for 100% although it is not a 100% exact calculation. The tool calculated a correct zoom factor for my 3 views projector FSX/WideView setup and I cannot believe why it would fail for a 5 views setup. BTW see this: http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/showthread.php?t=23199. (http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/showthread.php?t=23199.) Read what is written about Wideviewaspect and FS9.
So my findings are: if you stick to the (quite simple) "Wideviewaspect" rule given by the tool, input your number of monitor/projectors and the total FOV you want to cover, it calculates a zoom factor which guarantees a perfect horizontal alignment of all the views. Of course the centre of all monitor/projector screens should have the same distance to the eye (they all should be positioned as contiguous chords on a circle).
Just like to emphasize that nobody is to be blamed. Let's keep it pure technical. 8)
Ok tomorrow i will install the 4 th pc and order 1 more on monday to get everything running by the end of next week. Fantastic and already thank you from all you cockpit builders.
Phil.