what would you guys recommend,
thinking some day would like a jetmax or similar idea (dream set up)
but for now going to set up just for a multipurpose set up
so I can fly jets and GA etc..
any way currently using a 27 inch screen, and maybe thinking of getting a couple more
but I do have a bit of room for a projector, not sure about multiple ones though..
how different is it to fly with a projector to a monitor/screen ..
also if you use a projector what do you do for the screen ,
curved or straight if you know what I mean..
milo
Hi Milo, each person has their own preferences. Additionally, if you have lots of money to buy high resolution projectors you can get bigger screen coverage with those. I personally prefer LCD Screens for clairity and Contrast.
But a 220 degree wrap around "ROUND" Projection gives you the most insane feeling. Costs however are not linear. For instance, if you look at 3 projectors, now you need warping software on top of that etc.
Cheaper solutions would be 3 LCD's but with a really good Projector setup with warping software, can be amazing.
Trev
Hi Milo,
Single projector definitely will be an improvement over 27 inch screen, if you are not ready yet to move to 3 projectors setup.
There is no much point to make a curved screen for a single projector - you will lose some clarity due to warping software but will not gain the immersion of 180-210 degrees screen.
Note also that you will need a dark room for the projector.
Screen for a single projector could be any of big screens available on the market or could be just painted on the wall - for example - Behr "Silverscreen" paint from Home Depot gives you good enough results. I use such screen for my home cinema projector.
You could take a look in my blog to see how I built the curved screen.
Nick
The One projector route is the cheapest/fastest way to get a spectacular immersion.
10feet++ diagonal is easy to get, no LCD can match that.
As for the screen any white wall will do for the initial "Whao" ...
Drawbacks:
Less crisp than an LCD but not an issue IMHO especially if you can get a HD proj.
Room has to be dark, but even if LCDs are fine in daylight, flying in a "daylit" room does little for immersion!
Going 180°/3 proj/ curved is a MAJOR Megabuck enterprise.(software/hardware/ frustration and time).
My 2¢
Jack
PS: the subject has already been extensively debated on this forum and on other forums (search)
Jack, what field of view do you get with a single Projector? with a ten foot screen do you have some sense of peripheral vision and if you don't mind what distance do you have from the pilots eye to the screen and what zoom setting do you use.
Thanks and sorry if you've answered this before Jack.
I'm shortly about to do a complete rebuild of my pit and am STILL undecided whether to go for 3 LCDs or a single projector. ???
Regards
Joe.
My .02
LCDs are easier and like stated earlier give better clarity and contrast. I have 5 60" displays for wraparound and the immersion is great. I had projectors and curved screen before and switched because projectors kept having problems with blown pixels and i got tired of of it. I also always thpught they were way too blurry.
Now all that said, if I could afford it (possibly could...), I would give it another try with latest technology along with a NatVis professional setup (Nat Crea is the visuals king) or at least with same projectors/software. I believe HarryZ in Canada is also a projector visuals expert. I must say that I really prefer the ease of use when using FSX or Prepar3d of using one computer with a 980 card in surround mode on three displays with 3 views (4 if you count the background). Wideview and FSX/p3d is too difficult to maintain on multiple pcs though much better performance. i am getting pretty good performance off one PC with 980 and surround view but that means using only 3 of my 5 monitors and therefore I lose immersion factor one would get out of 3 projectors warped as a 210-220 degree wrap around view. (Nat or Harry...wannna give me a good deal :-)?)
Scott
thanks for the replies guys
If I go for a single projector set up,
how far back do you sit.. not sure if you can do a small scalled cockpit with something the size of the jetmax,
I think for now might just go with 2 extra 27s .
oh I have been looking at a lot of youtube videos with people who have gone the full 737 home simulator cockpit, a lot of the video's are a few years old and was wondering if people still have them, use them or get rid of them after awhile ?
this is all research for later on but I do appreciate the help
milo
To give an idea, i once put one of my 60" monitors in front of my multipit GA sim (search on multipit) and I didnt like it being very close. For a Jetmax setup I would say 3 27" screens in surround view would be awesome. A projector on a wall would be too much unless at a distance behind mip of 4- 6 ft depending on how bog the projection is. On my multipit today I currently use 3 22" displays and i feel its perfect. 27s would also be nice. Not too big and not too small....
Scott
Quote from: Joe Lavery on February 02, 2015, 01:01:42 PM
Jack, what field of view do you get with a single Projector? with a ten foot screen do you have some sense of peripheral vision and if you don't mind what distance do you have from the pilots eye to the screen and what zoom setting do you use.
Joe.
The projector I use is not even a short throw or wide format , res is 1024.
I got it second hand, for testing purposes, a few years ago and never bothered to change...(yet)
The screen is made of cheap white coroplast.
So all in all a very crappy setup vs all the amazing visuals I have tested (incl. Nat's).
But flying "IFR", this is a non priority for me.
Peripheral is basically non existent with my setup but having a huge image at a distance of about 7-8 feet in front of me , of which you see vertically just half at best, has a very good immersion effect due to the fact that there is more to see if you lean or tilt your head.
This being said it is a crappy visual compared with a 180° 3 views
What I meant above is that you can get a huge image filling up a dual seater front window for a few hundred bucks and no headhaches trying to blend/curve/ while keeping supersonic FPS.
Which bring me also to the fact that I would not trade a super smooth fluidity on the ground at a super detailed airport for a stuttering peripheral advantage.
Here are some pics of what I get with my "minimal" setup.
Hi Milo:
A 3 projector setup fits even a small room:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ9LePm1oqw&list=UUO1y6CcsMpcHaSupQD2VPJw¶ms=OAFIAVgu&mode=NORMAL
Cheers,
Andreas
Sent from my steam powered abacus via tapatalk
Someone else asked a similar question not long ago...
I would (yes I am anti-TV) go for a single HD projector on a simple curve screen.
Wouldn't cost much at all and easy to set-up if you do it yourself.
I set-up FDS SSTD once (similar to a JetMAX), with one HD Projector and a curved screen, the client was over the moon.
Nat
PS. Thanks for the compliment Scott!
Agree with Nat, nothing beats a projector set up for immersion effect, but make sure you purchase a well known projector brand!
thanks again for your wealth of knowledge guys
that small jetmax video with the shell was cool, but I think I'd have about room for half the size of that shell.. what are the dimensions for the jetmax?
Ta da!!
thanks for that jack, hope this helps others too :)
I went from single projector to two projectors, then two LCD screens, then four. Would not go back.
You can see mine on www.a320sim.com (http://www.a320sim.com)
Barry
Hi Barry, nice setup you have there. Can you tell me the distance you settled on from the TV to the front of the glareshield. After seeing different options I'm leaning more towards TVs, so your experiences are most informative.
Joe.
If you want details, ants crawling up the building, go with TV's,
If you want immersion, holding on to your seat when pushback starts, go with projectors.
:2cw:
Cheers,
Thanks Sam, my real issue is one of space. Building a screen around the cockpit needs a bigger space than I have. So it would either be one projector or three TVs.
Still undecided.... :-\
I fully understand Joe, in my case we made the screen radius tighter and closer to the cockpit, since my screen have to move with the cockpit we couldn't make it so wide or tall, is a hard decision, I had both setups the TV's and projectors and unless I can fit curved TV's with no bezels on there I'll stay with projectors.
Of course the other thing that concerns me Sam is the extra cost for warping software and a screen, which certainly makes TVs more attractive. Agreed if the curved screens were cheaper, with virtually no bezel that would be the best of both worlds.
I don't know how far along the road the flexible OLED technology is, but that would be the holy grail for us cockpit builders. Although when they do make an appearance in the size we need, they're likely to be mega expensive. :( Imagine a flexible screen that weighs next to nothing in any size you like...
Joe.
Quote from: Sam Llorca on February 07, 2015, 04:24:28 AM
I fully understand Joe, in my case we made the screen radius tighter and closer to the cockpit, since my screen have to move with the cockpit we couldn't make it so wide or tall, is a hard decision, I had both setups the TV's and projectors and unless I can fit curved TV's with no bezels on there I'll stay with projectors.
I think we get it Sam...you love your projectors... ::)
To each his own...this is a very personal choice and not all will agree. And yes, I love the immersion you get from projectors also, just wish they had better detail and contrast at an affordable price. You can still get great immersion from TVs but they need to be big and you need 5 for a 737. Oh, and the bezel thing...it has also been beaten to death. For some of us our brains blank them out and for others they cant stand them....again all personal opinions.
My suggestion to anyone trying to decide is to visit a couple builders with different setups and decide what YOU like best with your own eyes and considering your own budget capabilities. Otherwise....we all know what opinions are worth..
My .02. And yes, I have had both worlds as well. Wouldnt go back to projectors unless I was willing to spend enough on a pro setup by a pro installer like those named above.
Scott
Hoops I think I hit a nerve, it was not my intention and yes it has been beaten to death Scott, sorry if I offended you with my opinion, or my projectors, little by little I'm getting to know who's who on this forum, sometimes I ask myself why can we have a conversation like civilized people without the fear of being put down or criticized by one or two member here, that comment wasn't necessary or help anyone, I hate to put myself at your level by replying to it but I think is disrespectful and doesn't belong here.
Moderator, if you think I'm the one out of line on this post, you have my permission to delete it.
Quote from: Sam Llorca on February 07, 2015, 04:25:27 PM
Hoops I think I hit a nerve, it was not my intention and yes it has been beaten to death Scott, sorry if I offended you with my opinion, or my projectors, little by little I'm getting to know who's who on this forum, sometimes I ask myself why can we have a conversation like civilized people without the fear of being put down or criticized by one or two member here, that comment wasn't necessary or help anyone, I hate to put myself at your level by replying to it but I think is disrespectful and doesn't belong here.
Moderator, if you think I'm the one out of line on this post, you have my permission to delete it.
Hey Sam, you know who I am and I know who you are. I am not trying to start anything here. I just want to point out that this is a very opinionated subject and you and I both know what this stuff costs. Nobody should jump into a decision on something like this based on your or my opinion. I was only trying to offset your strong opinion of projectors with my strong opinion on tVs and point out that anyone about to spend a few grand on visuals should not just accept your views or mine but really see for themselves. I am sure you would welcome anyone to visit your sim as would I before making profound and costly decisions on these two different methods. Come on now, I consider you a friend and as such we should be able to have a good debate and share our views. My comment to you was made in jest hence the emoticon....if you cant take it as such I will be more careful with you in the future.
Best regards and apologies if you took the wrong way,
Scott
TVs still rule :P
My $0.02...
After seeing both TV and Projectors in hi-fidelity simulators, in my opinion, projectors win, hands-down.
While I won't go into details, the reason is due to the full-immersion effect. Yes, you lose some detail in projectors, but overall you gain immersion and 'feel' with projectors.
'Detail' being taxiway signs (You should already be aware of the local airport layout) and overall scenery.
Having flown TV & Projector sims, my money is on Projector sims... hands-down.
This debate is going the way of Boeing v Airbus and PC v Mac. One is unlikely to recommend the other.
But as I said to Sam earlier. for me there are more considerations to make. Cost being one and space another. So I'm going to do as most people suggest and find where I can see both types of setup for myself, and then make a choice. But I do thank everyone for their input.
Regards to all,
Joe.
I tried not to bite...and yes I am pro projectors, but here's my take.
There's definitely no right or wrong, but IF you have the space and the patience/budget to do it right,I cant see the comparison.
The argument that TV's and look more detailed is not really valid when you realise that it takes 17 50" TV's to fill the same area as a "typical" 200FOV screen like below!
****SEVENTEEN!****
If I reduced the image size of 3 HD projectors down to the same size as 3 (or 5) TV's...you see the same detail?!!!
I'm with Sam and Ray and 1/2 of Scott W. :)
Nat
Awesome visuals Nat, and the price tag for all this magnificence? :angel:
Joe.
(2¢ from the idling moderator)
Scott & Sam
You both have pushed the display quality enveloppe very far. with TVs for Scott and Proj with Sam.
Many pics over the forum attest of the excellence of your respective visuals and your input is greatly valued. Thank you both, please stay on the line ..lol
Everytime I go to Walmart, I spend quite some time in front of the row of Mega TVs and think !!! Hum? it should nicely fill the 73 windows
But at the end of the day I keep my One old projector...Go figure!
The debate has already been widely covered but is still valid as prices and technology are evolving at an amazing rate.
==================================
Pssst: go for projectors!
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi24.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc29%2Fjackpilot%2FFINGER11_zpse0304509.gif&hash=1333887da91c7be6a064b1b9c7b896eb0a0c4728)
Nat
Your pictures should be censored!!
:P
Thanks again for all of your replies guys..
you lot have some impressive set ups!
If I ever get any where near close to some of them I'd be happy!
and please don't fight too much guys about the difference from projector or monitors... I wouldn't want any ill feelings between us all..
I'm kind of very early in the planing stages..
I have been thinking about a jetmax set up or something that I can fly a mixture of planes..
I tend to like to fly Caravans, Dc3 ,and I do want to get into the pmdg planes at some point. so doing a full one plane sim at the moment might not work for me.. but I am taking on board all of your responses and learning from them.. hopefully some day to meet up with fellow Aussie simmers and see how they have their set up..if that is at all possible...
any way thanks again guys !
I love that happy face with crossed fingers, lol. :idiot:
I think this thread just reinforces how people strive for their own perfection/nirvana.
I went the 5 TV route, and despite the fact that people like Scott and Sam have both switched between TV's and projectors and equally landed on opposite sides of the fence, I too would switch to projectors if only Nat could figure out how to get me the 225 fov in my slightly too small room.
So even with all the knowledge and experience here on the forum, and knowing pros and cons of both, I would still want to try the other way just to be sure :). God help me if I can ever afford a collimated display for just the price of one body part.