Excuse the peculiar name, but that's the only thing original I came up with...
So I've just started out my project of building a 737NG sim (Yes...another NG). Currently gathering OEM 737 parts and depending on my time, I'll be converting them to use with Prosim737.
I currently have a Passenger Oxygen Panel and a Landing Gear Panel awaiting conversion.
Be sure to check out my Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/Oasis-737-Project-1773566239527930/?ref=ts&fref=ts (https://www.facebook.com/Oasis-737-Project-1773566239527930/?ref=ts&fref=ts)
Best regards,
Youssef
Was able to find this bad boy...
Wow. Thats a rare item!
I will have to use FDS panels on the NG specific panels like Preassurization,apu,elec and navigation panel for my overhead.
Will follow this project. Love the OEM stuff!
Thanks Peter!
I've posted a couple more images on my Facebook page.
Planning to post a video of how to convert it and all, but that won't be till June.
Does anyone here have the pinouts or wiring diagrams for an NG APU Panel?
Many thanks and best regards,
Youssef
The best is to contact the manufacturer online and ask for the pinout
I got answers every time.
Tell them you need it for interfacing the part to a flight simulater, and supply pârt number and serial number
Thanks for the advice.
I'll try.
The diagrams you need are spread across several ATA chapters, its not just a single page. You have parts on that panel from the 4 different parts of the Electrical section, 3 from the APU section and one from the Ice/Rain protection system.
That being said, there is only some Korry indicators (which all have their circuit diagram printed on them) and some simple switches that could be easily traced out with a multimeter.
It took me ages to find, so I am nervous about playing around with it.
Where can I find these ATA Chapters?
My approach...
Cut everything out including metalcase etc to save weight. Then build your own pcb board and connect a custom connector.
I think its too much hazzle to use original connectors.
Thats just my 2 cents.
I'm always reluctant to gut such a unit.
Plus, weight isn't an issue, unless you have a 737CL CDU.
I like to keep everything as is. The way I see it, gutting a unit is more of a loss.
You lose aviation grade wire, aviation grade metal protection, circuit boards that are worth possibly thousands when new along with a lot of other stuff.
Hunting a few panels, but having some difficulty.
Does anyone here know of where I can get hold of 737-800 sim spares?
Or where I can get used 737-800 simulator parts?
eBay is your best bet. But you have to wait until you find a deal.
Try this place https://simhelp.com/spare-parts-supply/ (https://simhelp.com/spare-parts-supply/)
But prepare your anus for the prices you will be quoted.
Generally sim parts are just as expensive as the aircraft parts, sometime even more expensive.
I know that company SimHelp.
Comparing prices with other vendors, they're on the high side.
For example, a fresh serviced NG Electric Meters Panel from Source A would cost you 19K. From SimHelp, a similar unit costs 28K. But that's how they trade in OEM parts.
Don't know how it will work out with used sim parts though...That is something I will have to look into.
Let's "land" down to earth, those prices are out of whack for the average , even fortunate , builder as long as the NG is an active airplane.
And with no logical relation with the intent of recreational simbuilding.
If you have a million $ budget it might be OK though.
Otherwise you are chasing the end of the rainbow.
:2cw:
This was just an example really, I source parts from other vendors for prices that are SIGNIFICANTLY lower.
I was just trying to advise anyone who is pursuing a similar project to steer away from SimHelp and find cheaper alternates. That's all.
Quote from: 737NGer on March 28, 2017, 07:23:36 AM
This was just an example really, I source parts from other vendors for prices that are SIGNIFICANTLY lower.
I was just trying to advise anyone who is pursuing a similar project to steer away from SimHelp and find cheaper alternates. That's all.
Give up on finding NG parts for any descent price for a sim builder. They dont exist.
I've actually been able to source a few. It's all about who you buy it from.
Most vendors would service their panels, but others have a policy of selling parts in whatever condition the customer requires. Which is where I come in. I ask for AR - As Removed - condition parts - the cheapest parts there are and end up with much, MUCH lower prices.
Unfortunately my vendors do not always have stock for certain parts, which is why I ask for help on the forum.
In my opinion, over the half the cockpit of an NG can be sourced for a reasonable price in the right conditions with a few exceptions which are the MCP, Presurisation Panel, CDU's and DU panels. And I've seen even those being sold for descent prices due to being BER or Unserviceable for whatever reason.
Hi Youssef,
How about you share with us the name of these vendors that you can "...SIGNIFICANTLY..." "...end up with much, MUCH lower prices."
I am sure members following the real parts usage track would like too know. Your suggestion to steer away from SimHelp and find cheaper alternatives is the question; who are these cheaper alternatives?
It would be nice of you to provide a list of the cheaper ones you've used and some examples of what you've purchased, along with pricing, in the manner which you speak of. That way it helps everyone...
Best Regards,
John
NG Gen Drive P5-5 Module
SimHelp - They will sell in SV for 5400 USD
UAM - They will sell you the same module in AR Condiion (With gurantees Working or Repairable - practically SV) for 1500 USD.
This is the comparison I'm trying to make. Hope this helps.
Great, thank you ????
John
OK so now who is going to afford this when building a NG sim?
I understand the price difference and that makes perfect sense. I'm also aware that SV condition means just that hence the price difference. Yousef its going to take a long time to get the parts you want at the price you want....and then you have to ask yourself am I prepared to wait this long when all you really want is to fly the thing :2cw:
Yes this is true...the project is progressing at a snail pace.
The main objective of the project is not to get it flying, but the electronics part of it is what interests me the most. This is my main goal. But unfortunately this comes with a price...
Ohhh....ok then that's a different story. All the best. This sounds interesting
Does anyone know what this module is, just below the F/O clock?
Its the annunciator panel for the HGS system (head up display)
Thanks Mick
Is it the same as the one on the pedestal?
Is it an airline option, or is it standardised on the NG?
No, the one on the pedestal is the actual control panel for the HUD, the on under the clock just shows the mode, status and failure annunciators.
Not standard on the NG, its an airline/customer option, but they are becoming more popular these days.
Any Idea what the P/N is for this panel?
Does it function like most other panels (basic I/O) or ARINC 429?
I have this panel in my sim. PM me and I can send you details.
Jim
PM Sent
Hello,
Do all Blue Annunciators in the overhead have both dim and bright indications, or only some of the annunciators?
Only the ones that relate to a valve, eg spar valve, crossfeed valve, anti-ice valves etc have 2 states depending on the valve's commanded vs actual position
The gnd power, gen off bus lights, ram door & call lights are bright only (plus on the real plane you have the bright / dim function for normal annunciators)
Thank you Mick.
Does the MAINT annunciator on P5-4 APU Panel have a bright and dim mode?
Negative, only the normal master bright/dim
Thank you.
A great help as always!
Can anyone clarify what this circuit symbol means?
Not in any of my reference manuals. Could it be a rotary switch?
Don't think it's a rotary. Nothing mechanically operated, as it's part of a PCB I think.
I found it in a Boeing manual.
Here's another schematic
Could it be a relay?
Its a logic/solid state switch. Only found inside boxes.
Excuse my noob electronics knowledge, but shouldn't there be a return or ground?
How does it work exactly?
These are not mechanical switches and are commonly used with logic gates as well. These are all inside LRU's (Line replaceable units) on circuit boards.
Exactly what Garys said. It will most likely be a switching transistor, that will switch depending on what it sees on pin 31 according to the diagram. It's a bit hard to tell without seeing the whole schematic.
Turned out to be a transistor. The switch was just a simplification it seems. In another schematic, the switch is replaced with a transistor.
Testing out circuits and going through schematics.
In need of a circuit simulator software as well as a PCB design software.
Any recommendations?
Thanks,
Youssef
Fritzing is a simple circuit design program, which is also free.
http://fritzing.org/download/ (http://fritzing.org/download/)
Or if you need something more substantial there's EagleCad, or the one I use is DesignSpark PCB, which is also free.
https://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/free-download (https://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/free-download)
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/pcb-software (https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/pcb-software)
There are also a number of free Circuit Simulators, although I've never used any of them.
http://nl5.sidelinesoft.com/index.php?page=buy&lang=en (http://nl5.sidelinesoft.com/index.php?page=buy&lang=en)
http://qucs.sourceforge.net/ (http://qucs.sourceforge.net/)
https://easyeda.com/ (https://easyeda.com/)
Hope that helps,
Joe.
Thank you very much Joe.
This terminal labelled 5V ... Does it supply +5VDC to the circuit or does it do something else? ????
This is a Phidgets 1012 card.
There is no power input socket on this board, so I would guess that the 5 volts is tapped from your USB.
I also see from the schematic on the Phidgets website that there's a 5 volt and ground connector on both sides, but the data doesn't really mention them. :huh:
http://www.phidgets.com/products.php?category=0&product_id=1012_2 (http://www.phidgets.com/products.php?category=0&product_id=1012_2)
Manuals at the bottom on the page!
It's an input / output board, so I'm surprised there's no power input, but in all honesty I'm not familiar with it. I would drop Phidgets a line or try their forum.
If you do use it and make use of the 5volt connector, I would be careful not to draw much current or you could blow the USB port on your PC. :(
Joe.
Was going to use it for backlighting! I never thought about the USB port blowing I admitt.
Good thing I didnt't! These bulbs draw a hefty amount of current.
Guess I'll have to wait a while until I get my 5V power supply ready.
What kind of connector do I need to wire the 'L' and 'N'?
I've been searching for a 'plug with wire' but apparently this isn't the name for it. :huh:
What exactly is it called whatever it is you connect to the 'L' and 'N' terminals on a power supply unit like this one?
Normally you would use a spade type crimp connection.
Steer clear of the cheap and nasty ones from automotive places as you are dealing with mains voltage. Also, make sure you connect the earth cable.
Quote from: 737NGer on May 26, 2017, 07:10:41 AM
This terminal labelled 5V ... Does it supply +5VDC to the circuit or does it do something else? ????
This is a Phidgets 1012 card.
The 5v port is used for the inputs. this 5v goes to one side of your switch(es) and the switched side goes to the input port.
The outputs sink to the ground terminals on the board when activated, and need an external supply on the other side, up to 30v
Quote from: mickc on May 26, 2017, 03:11:54 PM
Also, make sure you connect the earth cable.
I live in Egypt...There is no earth cable. Just two terminals in each socket.
But since there's no earth, I will only be able to connect to the L and N terminals, but not the ground terminal? Not too sure...
Plus, what brand spade connectors would you recommend?
How many amps approximately does an average light plate draw?
What is the most suitable wire guage for an average 737 lightplate (APU panel for example ?)
Work on 60mA per bulb, it should have how many bulbs are in the lightplate printed on the back, if not, pop the board out and count them. I'd change any bulbs that were dim or blackened while you were at it.
24 AWG is plenty for a lightplate, that will run almost 60 bulbs.(3.5A)`
What do you mean by blackened bulbs?
What type of bulbs are used in the lightplates?
And what guage wire could I use for Korry 318 annunciators operating at 28V?
Thanks,
Youssef
Quote from: 737NGer on May 28, 2017, 05:11:44 PM
What do you mean by blackened bulbs?
Umm bulbs that look dark when they are turned off. i usually replace all the bulbs just as a matter of course, then they are all uniform in appearance and should theoretically last the life of the sim.
Quote
What type of bulbs are used in the lightplates?
Can depend on the lightplate, most of them have it printed on the back of the board. 6832 bulbs are most common.
Quote
And what gauge wire could I use for Korry 318 annunciators operating at 28V?
Same gauge is fine for Korrys. They pull 160mA (2x 80mA bulbs)
I've been searching for the past couple of days all over the Internet looking for the 737-700/800 system schematic manuals but can't find a trace of them. All the ones that come up are 737-300/400/500 manuals.
Where can I find these?
http://www.smartcockpit.com/plane/BOEING/B737NG.html (http://www.smartcockpit.com/plane/BOEING/B737NG.html) :P
Quote from: jackpilot on June 10, 2017, 02:01:20 PM
http://www.smartcockpit.com/plane/BOEING/B737NG.html (http://www.smartcockpit.com/plane/BOEING/B737NG.html) :P
Not exactly what I'm looking for but useful nonetheless. :)
The schematics I'm actually looking for look kinda like this... (Attached image)
I believe they're called WDM's (Wiring diagram manual) but that's not what it says on this example page. :huh:
SSMs are different to WDMs
SSMs show how a system is laid out and how components are connected etc, where the WDMs show the full wiring run for a system including all connectors & pin numbers, ground numbers etc.
Neither are the sort of thing you will find freely available on the internet, as Boeing are quite hard on intellectual property rules. You need to make friends with someone who has access to My Boeing Fleet or similar.
since going down this road tiu will need CMM as well .. and yes Mr Mick is correct they cost a fortune i have rhe scars to prove it lol and thats if you jump through the hoops as one has to be "approved" ..
Quote from: bernard S on June 11, 2017, 04:15:46 AM
they cost a fortune i have rhe scars to prove it lol
LOL :D
Aren't CMM's owned by Boeing's suppliers not Boeing themselves? e.g. BAE systems makes most 737 panels so they have the CMM's
On average how much does a CMM, IPC, and WDM on a single panel cost?
a basket of fruit your right arm left leg and next unborn child to be scaificed to the sim Gods i have no idea for 73 but honeywell start at 4k
Wow...way more expensive than I thought.
So there are 50 panels in the cockpit let's say only 15 of them are worth getting the schematics for. 15 X 4K = Way more than I even intend to spend on building the sim itself. ????
delt3d
What is the difference between the Amp DC Buses and the Amp TRUs in Prosim?
I cross-referenced various Boeing schematics and the term TRU is often interchanged with DC BUS.
TRUs and DC Buses are 2 entirely different things. TRUs (Transformer Rectifier Units) Convert 115v AC to 28v DC to supply the DC buses.
The values in Prosim indicate how many amps are flowing through that particular item. So the current draw on a DC bus can be different to the current draw of one TRU.
Normally TRU 1 supplies DC bus 1 and TRU 2 -> DC BUS 2, and TRU 3 supplies the battery bus, but this can change depending on the bus tie relays, standby / normal relays etc, its not a simple system.
very very true and fair comment i have all DC anf AC buses with TRUs functioning in short complete electrical including grou d power APU.. BATTetc not easy but well worth effort to have electrical respond per the aircraft and yes 74 electrical panel is huge
That makes sense with the DC buses but why does Prosim have both TRU amps and DC Bus Amps?
In the real 737NG Meter panel there are no pins called DC Bus Amps, just TRU Amps.
To add to the confusion:
The TRU 1 and 2 Volt readings are taken from DC Bus 1 and 2 but TR3 volts are measured directly. How come Prosim has labelled "DC Standby Bus," but not just TR3 volts?
Quote from: bernard S on June 12, 2017, 03:51:18 AM
functioning in short complete electrical including grou d power APU.. BATTetc not easy but well worth effort to have electrical respond per the aircraft and yes 74 electrical panel is huge
That is exactly what I'm trying do but an NG in my case.
How did you get the Volts and Amps supplied to respond to changes in the aircraft i.e. How did you get Prosim or PSX to control the Voltage and Current signals to all the meters and panels?
Quote from: 737NGer on June 12, 2017, 06:47:01 AM
That makes sense with the DC buses but why does Prosim have both TRU amps and DC Bus Amps?
In the real 737NG Meter panel there are no pins called DC Bus Amps, just TRU Amps.
The section you are showing in Prosim is the numerical values section, these numbers are just system calculations and not all displayed on the panel
Also the meter panel will show the battery bus and standby power bus.
Quote
The TRU 1 and 2 Volt readings are taken from DC Bus 1 and 2 but TR3 volts are measured directly. How come Prosim has labelled "DC Standby Bus," but not just TR3 volts?
Prosim does not need to calculate the voltage of any TRUs, only the current. Only buses have voltage variables in Prosim. If you are referring to "Volt TransBus 1" & 2, that is not related to the TRUs, they are the AC transfer buses - a totally different thing.
Quote
How did you get the Volts and Amps supplied to respond to changes in the aircraft i.e. How did you get Prosim or PSX to control the Voltage and Current signals to all the meters or components?
I'm trying to get a meters panel to dsiplay actual voltages and amperages but the only thing I can think of is to use a digital potentiometer connected to an Arduino and depending on the resistance of the digi pot I'll get varying Amps and Volts. Problem is that how will an Arduino withstand 115 VAC without blowing up? ???
U WOT M8? ;D
Prosim does all this and calculates the values for you. Use the "Electrical Panel Upper Left" and other matching ones to run the digits at each section of the display. These numbers change according to the DC & AC rotary switch positions.
I'm mot sure what display you are running, but you are trying to do it with an Arduino, why would you need 115v AC??
You can do it with 7 segment displays or a VFD display (most realistic) Also i think there is an option to have it on a small LCD display now
Quote from: mickc on June 12, 2017, 07:12:14 AM
U WOT M8? ;D
Prosim does all this and calculates the values for you. Use the "Electrical Panel Upper Left" and other matching ones to run the digits at each section of the display. These numbers change according to the DC & AC rotary switch positions.
I'm mot sure what display you are running, but you are trying to do it with an Arduino, why would you need 115v AC??
You can do it with 7 segment displays or a VFD display (most realistic) Also i think there is an option to have it on a small LCD display now
LOLOL ;D
The reason why I need to supply the display 115 VAC is because I'm using a real elec meter panel - and these take measurements directly - you don't send it data to display.
An NG metering panel or classic? You will still need to send data to it to display current. The NG panel uses a 0-5v signal for the current metering
Are you talking about the DC or AC AMPS?
The DC amps are read according to the voltage applied between the pins. It takes readings from -400mVDC to 80mVDC and each mV corresponds to 1 amp. At least that's what I understand from the attached table (1st one)
The AC amps however I have no idea. The AC AMPS table (2nd table) makes no sense - it says Vtypical is 0.8VDC then it says 1mV is equivalent to 10 Amps - so the typical Amp reading would be 8000 Amps? ???
In just going off the attached file.
Do you actually have an NG panel yet or it still a pipedream? You be able to get it working theoretically, but will need static inverters, digital to analog voltage converters, and a lot of coding skill if you want one to run via an Arduino (or any controller for that matter)
You could use Phidgets 4-Analog cards to provide the voltage signals for current indication, based off prosim values, but you would need to code this yourself in C++ or .NET and have it run on a separate computer from the Prosim one.
Yes I have the NG panel.
I have some basics in coding hopefully that'll help.
Problem with the Phidgets Analog 4 cards is that they have a very low resolution for what I'm trying to simulate (resolution of 5mV only - I need a resolution of at least 1mV.)
Probably need to custom make something then. Although with the Phidgets you can use resistors in series to increase the resolution.
The LOC & GS deviation bars in my Stby attitude indicator use about -0.8 to +0.8v full scale with 0v being centre, i use 10K resistors in series on both sides of the coil and that gives a much greater resolution. in prosim the gauge sliders only move a few mm each way without the resistors, but with them i use about 3/4 of the range of calibration. Same with the Yaw Damper indicator.
Do you have the CMM for the panel?
I do have the CMM for this panel, but I can't upload due to its shear size (190 pages long.)
I'll post tommorow it's getting late Cairo time.
deleted lol
2 things, Bernard needs either A) a bigger keyboard - B) Smaller fingers - or C) Less Whiskey before posting :D :D
Also, don't post the CMM here, forums like this are religiously monitored for things like that being publicly posted, and i'm sure Trev & team don't want a nasty take-down letter from the manufacturer :o
I was just asking if you had one to reference.
Mick is right option three ... rhere is lots of wisdom in a bottle of scotch ..however makes one a piss poor speller ???????????? howevrr new refreshment arrived today and everybody should budget in their sim build these
Better yet, get one of these? Every Canadian has one...
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41qDqL0xI3L.jpg)
Quote from: Trevor Hale on June 13, 2017, 07:52:40 AM
Better yet, get one of these? Every Canadian has one...
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41qDqL0xI3L.jpg)
LOL
Thanks for the suggestion mate but I don't drink - That scotch does some nasty stuff to your liver!
lol yiu must not have one because that the swop out keg
Quote from: bernard S on June 13, 2017, 08:17:11 AM
lol yiu must not have one because that the swop out keg
The swop out keg WUT ? ;D
swop exchange enpty for full
Now back to technical hell...
In the manufacturer document, it is says that pins 42, 43 and 51 of plug J1 connect to the 28VDC power supply. (As seen in first image)
According to the Boeing diagram, 42 is the DC Bus 1, 43 is the HOT BAT BUS, but 51 is the + TR3 Amps (as seen in second image)
TR3 Amps takes a 0mVDC to 80mVDC signal (as seen in third image) - so how come it says supply 28VDC to pin 51?
Quote from: 737NGer on June 13, 2017, 01:18:49 PM
Now back to technical hell...
In the manufacturer document, it is says that pins 42, 43 and 51 of plug J1 connect to the 28VDC power supply. (As seen in first image)
According to the Boeing diagram, 42 is the DC Bus 1, 43 is the HOT BAT BUS, but 51 is the + TR3 Amps (as seen in second image)
TR3 Amps takes a 0mVDC to 80mVDC signal (as seen in third image) - so how come it says supply 28VDC to pin 51?
In the Boeing diagram J1 is on the left and J2 is on the right. The TRU amp signals connect via J2 not J1.
Sent from my HTC 2PS6200 using Tapatalk
That can't be - the connector on the left in the Boeing schematic doesn't even have a pin 43. As you can see on the left are rs232 ports. I checked the manufacturer manual and it says that rs232 pins are on J2 so the left is J2 and the right is J1.
TRU amps connect via J1 (see attached)
lol i should have not deleted post ..he is your solution ... its really simple ..arrange for Mick to come to you its going to work out cheaper and faster ..you are going down a very complex road
Sorry, I meant on the panel itself.
Can you post a photo of the back of the panel, showing the Dxxxx connector numbers?
Quote from: mickc on June 13, 2017, 03:52:53 PM
Sorry, I meant on the panel itself.
Can you post a photo of the back of the panel, showing the Dxxxx connector numbers?
It's going to be shipped within a few days - I don't have it with me right now.
I have the -4 version the one with the Dual Battery Option and the single Galley Switch Toggle.
How do I take data from Prosim and send it to an Arduino?
What I intend to do is take the Voltage Values from Prosim and send them to an Arduino then to a DAC which will output the required voltage. But how do I even get Prosim to send data to the Arduino in the first place?
Thats a question you will have to ask Prosim.. If they collect and or send the data through Simconnect or better yet FSUIPC You should be able to access that data. If they use that voltage as a computation internally, you may be screwed.
With all that being said though, 737 Overheads read the data from somewhere, so you should be able to collect it.
I get my "AMPS" and "Voltages" From FSUIPC and then send it to my Arduino with a LUA script and pwm a servo with the data.
Quote from: 737NGer on June 20, 2017, 08:41:35 AM
How do I take data from Prosim and send it to an Arduino?
What I intend to do is take the Voltage Values from Prosim and send them to an Arduino then to a DAC which will output the required voltage. But how do I even get Prosim to send data to the Arduino in the first place?
You can do this with Arduino using their TCP client. At one point I thought they were going to offer an SDK but it never materialized to my knowledge.
Scott
Quote from: Trevor Hale on June 21, 2017, 07:14:15 AM
I get my "AMPS" and "Voltages" From FSUIPC and then send it to my Arduino with a LUA script and pwm a servo with the data.
That might be my solution - how do you do that with a LUA script?
Quote from: XOrionFE on June 21, 2017, 08:08:49 AM
Quote from: 737NGer on June 20, 2017, 08:41:35 AM
How do I take data from Prosim and send it to an Arduino?
What I intend to do is take the Voltage Values from Prosim and send them to an Arduino then to a DAC which will output the required voltage. But how do I even get Prosim to send data to the Arduino in the first place?
You can do this with Arduino using their TCP client. At one point I thought they were going to offer an SDK but it never materialized to my knowledge.
Scott
Isn't TCP used in ethernet connections? How does that work with Prosim?
Quote from: 737NGer on June 21, 2017, 12:22:09 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hale on June 21, 2017, 07:14:15 AM
I get my "AMPS" and "Voltages" From FSUIPC and then send it to my Arduino with a LUA script and pwm a servo with the data.
That might be my solution - how do you do that with a LUA script?
Quote from: XOrionFE on June 21, 2017, 08:08:49 AM
Quote from: 737NGer on June 20, 2017, 08:41:35 AM
How do I take data from Prosim and send it to an Arduino?
What I intend to do is take the Voltage Values from Prosim and send them to an Arduino then to a DAC which will output the required voltage. But how do I even get Prosim to send data to the Arduino in the first place?
You can do this with Arduino using their TCP client. At one point I thought they were going to offer an SDK but it never materialized to my knowledge.
Scott
Isn't TCP used in ethernet connections? How does that work with Prosim?
That is correct. It is one protocol of many used over ethernet though you do not have to go over ethernet with it. See Page 27 of the manual "Generic Driver" instructions. I believe there are a couple threads on Prosim's forum of folks doing some of this as well. I have not implemented yet but had experimented on it with a friend who is a great programmer using Teensy's
You wont be able to emulate the metering panel with FSUIPC data alone, you will need to access the Prosim variables.
FSUIPC only contains basic electrical system info, the rest is all done internally by Prosim and does not via FSUIPC (TRU loads, standby power, transfer buses etc)
You can send Prosim variables to and Arduino via ethernet , USB Serial or hardware serial.
Several options are out there for hardware, I have used quite a few such as normal Arduino uno/megas, SimStacks (ethernet based) and the new SimDuino from Phil at Simvionics.
To interface my electrical system panels I need to simulate the various power buses.
Best way in my opinion is to use a DAC, but the problem is I can't find many high voltage DACs.
I'm looking for a 0-40V DAC, high res, SPI or I2C interface and that can handle high currents (up to 100 mA.) Where can I get one?
Hi Does anyone know what kind of chromate coating is used on the case of the panel?
Apparently some types of chromate coatings are highly toxic, and there's a kid in the house so I want to check.
Usually Zinc Chromate
Quote from: mickc on July 31, 2017, 04:23:44 AM
Usually Zinc Chromate
Isn't zinc chromate more of a yellow colour not a goldish/brown colour? Probably something else
That looks like an alodine or some other type of chemical treatment. I wouldn't be to concerned. Just like lead paint, don't let your kid eat it :D
Quote from: Garys on July 31, 2017, 10:48:02 AM
That looks like an alodine or some other type of chemical treatment. I wouldn't be to concerned. Just like lead paint, don't let your kid eat it :D
Thank you Mick and Gary for the advice. Yeah...lead paint...good analogy. :)
I wonder what it tastes like though ??? ;D
Finally got it working!
Nice, any luck with the AC side yet?
AC is a different story...need a 400Hz pure sinewave static inverter. Probably some $2K+ :( not within my present budget, but I might have to get one not only for the GEN metering but maybe for other stuff in the cockpit that run on this high power.
A couple of issues I ran into:
From the CMM, it says that AC ground is also the same pin as DC Ground Ref (not to be confused with the normal DC Gnd), so I'll have to connect this pin to both the return of the DC supply and at the same time to the AC Inverter?
I accidentaly applied 28VDC to a terminal connected to the ammeter which only takes about 80mV :o. The ammeter however has + and - pins and only one pin was connected, so I hopefully didn't do any damage. If, however, the ammeter is internally connected to the DC GND then I've probably fried it. Do you think that the ammeter is in anyway connected to DC GND?
First of all - "Building a sim with OEM NG components" and "having a budget" - You can pick only one option :D :D :D
2. Yes, AC & DC grounds are often connected especially in inverter environments.
3. Should be fine if you only connected one side. These are only shunts so you are pretty safe there as they will not be internally grounded.
First time i ever see this NG panel in place of a cockpitbuilder! Nice work!
Quote from: mickc on August 03, 2017, 10:26:29 PM
First of all - "Building a sim with OEM NG components" and "having a budget" - You can pick only one option :D :D :D
2. Yes, AC & DC grounds are often connected especially in inverter environments.
3. Should be fine if you only connected one side. These are only shunts so you are pretty safe there as they will not be internally grounded.
Thanks for the info Mick - it'll help me a lot.
I will be away for a few days and when I'm back, I'll try to get the functional test working. I'll try to upload a video of it then.
Quote from: kurt-olsson on August 03, 2017, 11:54:14 PM
First time i ever see this NG panel in place of a cockpitbuilder! Nice work!
Thanks Peter! Where are the IPECOS? ;)
oh boy are you in for a treat .. going real with ALL the ac and dc power buses ... if you think 2k is expensive your about to enter a black hole of which there is no return..I think Mick was being polite with smiley faces... your budget for yoyr build is it cost what it costs
you will need these as a heads up ????..i still have to redo pandoras box the wiring there needs be completed and blah blah but yiu get the idea
Quote from: bernard S on August 04, 2017, 05:14:57 AM
oh boy are you in for a treat .. going real with ALL the ac and dc power buses ... if you think 2k is expensive your about to enter a black hole of which there is no return..I think Mick was being polite with smiley faces... your budget for yoyr build is it cost what it costs
you will need these as a heads up ????..i still have to redo pandoras box the wiring there needs be completed and blah blah but yiu get the idea
Yes at some point I'll have to simulate all the DC Buses and AC Buses, not just for the meter, but to power all the panels, logic etc...
The main holdup is partly money and space ...I still need a shell to set all of this up (beyond budget,) and the 400Hz static inverter which is again too expensive for the time being.
Quote
Thanks Peter! Where are the IPECOS? ;)
On the way as we speak! Pictures coming soon. :)
heres my two cents and i will never mention it again.. i promise ..bud you keep saying a deck beyond budget and a 400hz converter too expensive and beyond your reach budget wise and no space to build . these are the most basic requirements since you want to go all real per the design basis aircraft from what i read you wallet does not match your palette
if you think you sre going to recoup by doing training etc ..you will not period end of story as your software is not up to.par
doing all real requires a team of people loads of special tools etc etc and time lots and lots of time by time i mean years andvyears ..the list of extras requiredis endless... but like i said this just my 2 cents worth... you actually might be better off getting simulated items they are way more palletable finanically
if you are dead set on this going all real ..i tell you this you can buy a decent house , luxury car buy luxury i mean 150k plus or nice aircraft for what you are about to spend plus it appears you going to need alot of help (usually found in bottle of decent scotch) ... good luck to you may i suggest that before you go too far down this path reach out to someone that had all real and i dont mean a mix of simulated and real and make a trip and decide from there
Very good advice Bernard,
Many builders start out with high aspirations, but very quickly realise the enormity of the task they're about to undertake.
There are plenty of people on this site who have already gone this route and can offer helpful insight.
:2cw:
Quote from: bernard S on August 04, 2017, 01:21:22 PM
heres my two cents and i will never mention it again.. i promise ..bud you keep saying a deck beyond budget and a 400hz converter too expensive and beyond your reach budget wise and no space to build . these are the most basic requirements since you want to go all real per the design basis aircraft from what i read you wallet does not match your palette
I will definitely buy an inverter at some pint in the future; the only use I could make out of it is the gen metering - not worth investing in (for the meantime.)
Quote from: bernard S on August 04, 2017, 01:21:22 PM
if you think you sre going to recoup by doing training etc ..you will not period end of story as your software is not up to.par
I'm not too sure what you mean by that, but if you mean Prosim and OEM don't mix too well you're 100% correct. Luckily, you could always take the available prosim values and rewrite the logic on an Arduino of some sort.
Quote from: bernard S on August 04, 2017, 01:21:22 PM
if you are dead set on this going all real ..i tell you this you can buy a decent house , luxury car buy luxury i mean 150k plus or nice aircraft for what you are about to spend plus it appears you going to need alot of help (usually found in bottle of decent scotch) ... good luck to you may i suggest that before you go too far down this path reach out to someone that had all real and i dont mean a mix of simulated and real and make a trip and decide from there
I don't have the luxury to invest $1 mil + on a sim or even a fraction of that - and even if I could afford such a sim, I would still try to save money as much as possible.
$1 mil + means you buy an entire cockpit, with all the panels, at proper value near SV market value (20K per panel average), fully wired and converted by a specialist simulation company as well as a high fidelity flight dynamics engine supplied by the aircraft manufacturer + Collimated dsiplay + 6 DOF motion platform. Far beyond what I'm hoping for.
This is a long term project, probably will take around at least another 4 years from now - I'm not in a rush to get it flying - I don't mind the wait.
I appreciate the advice Bernard - thank you.
BTW is you're build a 747? Photos please :D
Weeelllll.....
That $1mil would almost get you the "high fidelity flight dynamics engine supplied by the aircraft manufacturer" so now you are on to $2mil :laugh:
Bernard's "Pandoras Box" sticky note is the best response/advice ever...by far ;D
Nat
here ya go
Holy Shite Bernard!
You win!! :-[
Haha Quite the Setup you got there Bernard!
Love people who goes -"all in".
Does it have a motion platform?
Either way ... challenge accepted! ;D
yrs 6 doff hydraulic to be fiited ... but tbis not my thread.. i was just commenting on issues going all real in closing theres another chap (wont name names) on here thats more advanced than i am
Quote from: bernard S on August 11, 2017, 11:03:01 AM
yrs 6 doff hydraulic to be fiited ... but tbis not my thread.. i was just commenting on issues going all real in closing theres another chap (wont name names) on here thats more advanced than i am
What series aircraft is this person building?
Hi guys,
I can't seem to find any sort of info about the NG MIP structure in terms of P/N's, manufacturer and so.
Can any NG shell owners - the next time you're working on your sim - can you please take a look at your MIP frame and see if there are any P/N's on them somewhere?
Thanks,
Youssef
NG shells are still in the "Chicken tooth" category. :P
Quote from: jackpilot on March 06, 2018, 08:38:35 AM
NG shells are still in the "Chicken tooth" category. :P
Lol...kinda true
There are however a lot more NG's in the scrapyards now then there were 2 years ago - there is probably a few (though not many) NG owners on this forum.
I doubt it
....Guys? ::)
Not exactly the answer to your question, but i bought a MIP structure from Simparts.de that i know retrofitts them in used real shells with OEM parts.
Could be worth checking out if you dont find the real deal.
Quote from: 737NGer on March 06, 2018, 08:23:40 AM
Hi guys,
I can't seem to find any sort of info about the NG MIP structure in terms of P/N's, manufacturer and so.
Can any NG shell owners - the next time you're working on your sim - can you please take a look at your MIP frame and see if there are any P/N's on them somewhere?
Thanks,
Youssef
If you have access to the IPC look at chapter 53-42-00 Equipment attach fittings. Part numbers will change depending on aircraft effectivity but 233A2302-26 is one number for the MIP. There are literally hundreds of different part numbers when you take in all effectivity and individual components that make up a mip when looking in the IPC so if you have a particular component of the mip your trying to find it may be easier to give a brief description of the component. Sorting through the ipc for each individual component to make up a complete mip would be a huge task.
Quote from: kurt-olsson on March 06, 2018, 11:43:18 AM
Not exactly the answer to your question, but i bought a MIP structure from Simparts.de that i know retrofitts them in used real shells with OEM parts.
Could be worth checking out if you dont find the real deal.
I did not know that - good suggestion in cas I fail at finding an OEM MIP - Thanks Peter :)
Quote from: Garys on March 06, 2018, 01:16:22 PM
Quote from: 737NGer on March 06, 2018, 08:23:40 AM
Hi guys,
I can't seem to find any sort of info about the NG MIP structure in terms of P/N's, manufacturer and so.
Can any NG shell owners - the next time you're working on your sim - can you please take a look at your MIP frame and see if there are any P/N's on them somewhere?
Thanks,
Youssef
If you have access to the IPC look at chapter 53-42-00 Equipment attach fittings. Part numbers will change depending on aircraft effectivity but 233A2302-26 is one number for the MIP. There are literally hundreds of different part numbers when you take in all effectivity and individual components that make up a mip when looking in the IPC so if you have a particular component of the mip your trying to find it may be easier to give a brief description of the component. Sorting through the ipc for each individual component to make up a complete mip would be a huge task.
Hi Garys,
I'm looking for the MIP frame/structure, not the whole assembly.
Is the frame a single assembly or several parts put together?
Thanks,
Youssef
It is several parts put together. I personally believe it would be far easier to take Peters advice and look for a replica Mip.
Quote from: Garys on March 06, 2018, 01:52:23 PM
It is several parts put together.
Is there an assembly number for the full MIP frame without the panels?
The Part number above doesn't include any panels. That is just the support structure that you are looking for.
Quote from: Garys on March 06, 2018, 01:59:06 PM
The Part number above doesn't include any panels. That is just the support structure that you are looking for.
Okay.
Are all MIP frame P/N alternatives also in the form 233A2302-X?
Or are there more base P/Ns?
Correct 233A2302-XX. look at equipment attach fittings chapter 53.
Quote from: Garys on March 06, 2018, 02:07:37 PM
Correct 233A2302-XX. look at equipment attach fittings chapter 53.
I don't have chapter 53 :-[
Gary is right on the money. The MIP Frame is made specifically for each airframe depending on airline options etc, not something they keep in stock as a "spare part" . A quick look shows over 400 parts alone that go into one of the box assembly that hold the 2 DUs on the capt and F/O side. All manner of plates, brackets, nutplates, rivets, seals etc., thats before any of the electrical parts.
As someone that buys quite a lot of new Boeing parts, I can assure you if you tried to even look at building the MIP from parts, you pay about the same as what it costs to buy a small island.... ;) And no, these parts dont come onto the second hand market, as they are all riveted together. The MIP (actually called the Support Installation- Fwd Panel) does actually unbolt and come out (if you have watched the Youtube video on the build of a 737 you will see them pushing one into place) although any NG MIPs becoming available will come with the whole shell, and most likely straight to a commercial Level-D Sim manufacturer
As you will not see any of it when installed, why the need for an OEM MIP frame? you will need to cut significant chunks out of it to fit screens etc unless you are planning on using OEM DUs etc
You will interested to know that the -31 can be bought from Boeing with a 3 month lead time for just under 250K. Makes those NG cockpits that are for sale in desert look super cheap 8) ???
Mick- Awesome explanation. Thank you
Quote from: Garys on March 06, 2018, 02:16:18 PM
Well in that case you will interested to know that the -31 can be bought from Boeing with a 3 month lead time for just under 250K. Makes those NG cockpits that are for sale in desert look super cheap 8) ???
Lol...250K only...I'll take two...lol...since when is CNCed metal and a couple of rivets that expensive?
Quote from: mickc on March 06, 2018, 02:13:58 PM
Gary is right on the money. The MIP Frame is made specifically for each airframe depending on airline options etc, not something they keep in stock as a "spare part" . A quick look shows over 400 parts alone that go into one of the box assembly that hold the 2 DUs on the capt and F/O side. All manner of plates, brackets, nutplates, rivets, seals etc., thats before any of the electrical parts.
As someone that buys quite a lot of new Boeing parts, I can assure you if you tried to even look at building the MIP from parts, you pay about the same as what it costs to buy a small island.... ;) And no, these parts dont come onto the second hand market, as they are all riveted together. The MIP (actually called the Support Installation- Fwd Panel) does actually unbolt and come out (if you have watched the Youtube video on the build of a 737 you will see them pushing one into place) although any NG MIPs becoming available will come with the whole shell, and most likely straight to a commercial Level-D Sim manufacturer
As you will not see any of it when installed, why the need for an OEM MIP frame? you will need to cut significant chunks out of it to fit screens etc unless you are planning on using OEM DUs etc
Yes I've seen the video before.
Lol ...I really am planning on using OEM DUs...just once I find the graphics card GG CCA..man these are rare...
What do the arcade guys use to convert the signal to the old cga/ega monitors in the cabinet.
Quote from: Garys on March 06, 2018, 02:23:25 PM
What do the arcade guys use to convert the signal to the old cga/ega monitors in the cabinet.
Nah not my generation ... :)
BTW Garys...I've sent you a PM.
Quote from: 737NGer
Lol...250K only...I'll take two...lol...since when is CNCed metal and a couple of rivets that expensive?
When it is going into an aircraft and needs full trace paperwork etc, it skyrockets the price
Quote from: 737NGer
Lol ...I really am planning on using OEM DUs...just once I find the graphics card GG CCA..man these are rare...
Yeah good luck with that.... Even if you can get 6 serivceable DUs, the costs of the DEUs, Coax splitters etc will be astronomical, not to mention all the hardware you will need to simulate the I/O data the DEUs will be expecting
Quote from: mickc on March 06, 2018, 06:57:08 PM
Quote from: 737NGer
Lol ...I really am planning on using OEM DUs...just once I find the graphics card GG CCA..man these are rare...
Yeah good luck with that.... Even if you can get 6 serivceable DUs, the costs of the DEUs, Coax splitters etc will be astronomical, not to mention all the hardware you will need to simulate the I/O data the DEUs will be expecting
I'm not planning on using full DEU's - just a couple of internal cards instead - the power supply card and the graphics generator card.
As for the DU's, I'll save myself the trouble and just buy ARC or UNSV units instead.
Hi guys,
Anyone know the P/N on the F/O side Clock panel - the variant with the new-style HGS Annunciator (attached photo)?
Thanks,
Youssef