Cockpitbuilders.com

CockpitBuilders.com - Main => General Discussion Board. => Topic started by: jskibo on July 13, 2020, 06:03:54 am

Title: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: jskibo on July 13, 2020, 06:03:54 am
Pre-order open at Microsoft. Three versions available. Appears airports and planes being the difference. 

$59 to $119

MS2020 preorder (https://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/microsoft-flight-simulator?irgwc=1&OCID=AID2000142_aff_7593_10078&tduid=%28ir__0fe1m6v22kkftjvbkk0sohznxu2xiwruzvvztryi00%29%287593%29%2810078%29%28theverge.com%29%2866960X1564647Xd6de1d56bfc1fdae1001e23fdd39bde2%29&irclickid=_0fe1m6v22kkftjvbkk0sohznxu2xiwruzvvztryi00)

Release Aug 18th
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: kattz on July 13, 2020, 06:55:21 am
Any word on how well it will support builders?
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: jskibo on July 13, 2020, 07:07:16 am
I haven't seen anything other than an SDK.  If they haven't learned their lesson form the last 20 years we will need a Pete Dawson tool
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Trevor Hale on July 13, 2020, 08:40:31 am
Pete & John have confirmed they will be working on FSUIPC for it.  I have also confirmation Simconnect is still there.

Trev
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: jskibo on July 13, 2020, 08:55:32 am
Quote from: Trevor Hale on July 13, 2020, 08:40:31 amPete & John have confirmed they will be working on FSUIPC for it.  I have also confirmation Simconnect is still there.

Trev

Just need a solution for my other hardware. PFC, RXP for the GTN and Air Manager for the Aspen oh and Flight Illusion
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: FredK on July 13, 2020, 10:05:13 am
Hmmmm.......the timing on this is sort of weird.....

Alpha testing is still in progress, and the closed Beta was not to start until July 30.

So a decision was made by somebody to suddenly and completely leap-frog all of that.  Could be that MS has a very high confidence in what they have, or it could be there is management frustration that the development process is dragging on too long.  With everyone at home due to COVID they may be thinking that they would otherwise be missing a big opportunity if they launched later.

No 737, and it will be awhile yet for MSFS2020 to be "cockpit" ready.  So I am content for the time being to stay with my "crash-proof" P3Dv4.5.  Will be interesting to follow the forum reports though.

Fred K
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: jackpilot on July 13, 2020, 10:31:52 am
Same here, still with V4 which performs bulletproof with SimAvionics..
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Vincent T. on July 13, 2020, 01:46:05 pm
Yes the timing of MSFS2020 surprises, it does look like people being at home during Covid is helping beta / alpha tests?
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: stratfordwill on July 15, 2020, 06:15:36 pm
I think the timing suggests that the open beta, now scheduled for 8/18, is included in the price of your pre-order. But that's the trend with most games these days. Release early and fix later or maybe don't.  Regardless I still have high hopes.
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Ed on July 18, 2020, 02:33:51 am
I don't understand the advantage of pre-ordering. Why not just pay and download on release day?
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: jackpilot on July 18, 2020, 04:43:12 am
Besides, waiting for a stable build is probably a good idea.
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Ed on July 18, 2020, 05:00:20 am
Quote from: jackpilot on July 18, 2020, 04:43:12 amBesides, waiting for a stable build is probably a good idea.

Good Morning Jack,

Agreed. I'm not going to be diving in to quick, although I have high hopes that maybe this time they'll get it right. Time will tell.

Still have fond memories of that hidden corner of Quebec. :) Hope all is well your way.  Take good care and stay safe.
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Garys on July 18, 2020, 05:33:33 am
Quote from: Ed on July 18, 2020, 02:33:51 amI don't understand the advantage of pre-ordering. Why not just pay and download on release day?

You can download it onto your system right away. The executable wont run until Aug 18th, but I imagine the servers are going to be hammered for a few days when its first released so its a way of beating the traffic so to speak. Other than that there is no real benefit.
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: jackpilot on July 18, 2020, 08:56:58 am
Hi Ed.
Flying everyday (nothing much else to do!)
Stay safe 2
Jack
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Ed on July 18, 2020, 04:22:25 pm
Quote from: Garys on July 18, 2020, 05:33:33 am
Quote from: Ed on July 18, 2020, 02:33:51 amI don't understand the advantage of pre-ordering. Why not just pay and download on release day?

You can download it onto your system right away. The executable wont run until Aug 18th, but I imagine the servers are going to be hammered for a few days when its first released so its a way of beating the traffic so to speak. Other than that there is no real benefit.


Ahh... got it.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: jfuenmayor on July 19, 2020, 04:01:27 pm
Hi fellows.

I have been away all too long from the forum. I have not looked at the new MSFS except for some videos on YT. Besides the great graphics etc. what caught my attention was the implementation of RWY gradients, which is a missing feature in in both FSX or P3D as I understand it. I am also aware, as pointed out by some of the developers during an interview, that the flight dynamics now include parameters that may render a stall more realistic, like the dropping of a wing and pre stall buffet. I wonder if any of this will prompt these developments in P3D.

I will continue to use P3D 4.5 unless any of you can give me a compelling reason to make the jump to the latest version :).

I hope that everybody is safe during these turbulent times.

Cheers
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: FredK on July 20, 2020, 09:45:48 am
Quote from: jfuenmayor on July 19, 2020, 04:01:27 pmHi fellows.

I have been away all too long from the forum. I have not looked at the new MSFS except for some videos on YT. Besides the great graphics etc. what caught my attention was the implementation of RWY gradients, which is a missing feature in in both FSX or P3D as I understand it. I am also aware, as pointed out by some of the developers during an interview, that the flight dynamics now include parameters that may render a stall more realistic, like the dropping of a wing and pre stall buffet. I wonder if any of this will prompt these developments in P3D.

I will continue to use P3D 4.5 unless any of you can give me a compelling reason to make the jump to the latest version :).

I hope that everybody is safe during these turbulent times.

Cheers

Multi-screen/multi-channel and a Sim Avionics 737 are basic requirements before I can even start to think about MSFS2020. It will also take several months to work out all the bugs associated with a release like this I believe.....particularly since MS has essentially leap-frogged beta testing.

Also, I am very content with P3Dv4.5 performance right now.  Over the years I have become weary regarding all the instability and tweaking involved with FSX and P3D.  There is none of that with P3Dv4.5, so I am in a good place right now.

I'm not knocking MSFS2020.....I am certainly looking forward to it....I am just setting reasonable expectations for myself.

Fred K
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: WheelerEGKK on July 21, 2020, 01:23:50 am
I totally agree with Fred K. So much invested in my cockpit together with Prosim. It does look to me as is the users will be doing a lot of the testing post release. I understand this approach as we have such a range of different equipment. I will wait until it is stable and all the addons etc have been released.

P3D v4.5 is working fine for me. Have never had sloped runways so I can wait.

Kelvin
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: jackpilot on July 21, 2020, 09:10:04 am
I read on some euro-forums that the flight models were not consistent across the alphas.
Sometimes improved then back to previous pitfalls. To be checked for sure.
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: helloo on July 21, 2020, 12:57:55 pm
Quote from: FredK on July 20, 2020, 09:45:48 amMulti-screen/multi-channel and a Sim Avionics 737 are basic requirements before I can even start to think about MSFS2020.

Fred K

Multi screen is already supported from their cockpit discovery video.  No message is associated with this attachment.Untitled.jpg
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Joe Lavery on August 03, 2020, 06:07:07 pm
Hi all,
I've been fortunate enough to have access to the Alpha and recently the Beta versions of FS2020, which is as good as it looks.. quite stunning in fact, particularly at night. It's the first time I found it possible to fly accurate VFR at night.

While I've enjoyed both P3D and X-Plane over the past few years. they both look rather dated in their default sceneries by comparison. Of course the addition of Orbx scenery can improve them considerably. The down side being the massive amount of drive space you need to install it. For example the whole of the UK in Orbx True Earth is over a terabyte.

I didn't honestly believe the scenery would be as good as the advertising shots and videos, but it is! The detail even outside the areas given the super detail treatment are still better than we've ever had before. Yet those nominated for this extra treatment are simply mind blowing.

We still don't know if 2020 will completely support out hobby, but I don't see them ignoring such a large segment of prospective flight Simulator customers. I'm told we're shortly to have the release version, so perhaps I'll know more then.
   
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: navymustang on August 04, 2020, 05:54:41 am
I can verify your comments about the scenery. My Beta version is wonderful, minor bugs still, but it is truly on the way of being a great VFR scenery flyer experience.
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: blueskydriver on August 04, 2020, 07:54:49 pm
Hey Joe,

I've been checking YT videos and leaving questions in the comments about turning off the cockpit view/MIP per se in MSFS 2020. As of yet no one has answered or made any other comments regarding this.

Asobo did a 45 second preview back in one of the episode videos; however, nothing as been mentioned from them since.

Therefore, please tell us what you know and/or make a video showing it being turned off, or at the very least say if it's currently possible....

Kind Regards,

John
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Joe Lavery on August 05, 2020, 06:23:14 am
Hi John,

From what I've seen so far there is no option to remove the MIP, but the final list of options is 33 pages long and includes a Toggle Panel option. Another option is Toggle Own Aircraft, which I presume refers to an outside view.
There are literally hundreds of commands that reference items that are not available in FSX or P3D. "BUT" and that's a big but, we are all working with a pre-release version of the software, so many of these options may not be available when it finally appears.
Having said that it demonstrates that the developers are looking at all these commands and options.

As far as video or screen shots are concerned, I'm not one of the chosen few who have had their user IDs removed from the screen. Consequently I cannot publish anything until Microsoft release me from the NDA.

From a personal perspective I think this simulator will include all these options at some point; they have certainly laid the groundwork to do so. I can see no reason why they wouldn't.

Kind regards
Joe.
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: blueskydriver on August 06, 2020, 07:05:25 am
Hi Joe,

Thanks for letting us know everything, and totally understand about you're under the NDA. It's just good hearing from you about it in any regard because you're a full-size builder; whereas, the desktop folks who haven't learned the intricacies of dealing with things like this might not fully understand.

John
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: blueskydriver on August 12, 2020, 11:24:35 pm
5 more days...tick, tock, tick, tock, whole world crying about how their clock is not moving fast enough...awaiting MSFS 2020!

6 more days...tick, tock, tick, tock, whole world crying about how their computer is not moving fast enough...awaiting a PC in 2020!

Some things never change in this hobby... LOL!

John
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Joe Lavery on August 13, 2020, 03:57:42 am
After flying the Final Beta for some weeks now, I can tell you it's a new day for flight simulation.
I would add you'll need some hefty computing power to run it, but I guess most of us have that already. If you can fly P3D v5 without any glitches, you're good to go.
The graphics you see on YouTube are simply everywhere, I haven't found a place that didn't look better than any sim whatever the add-ons. I guarantee you will be stunned, the ability to look in any direction and see, realistic, accurate landscape is awesome.

Incidentally I have no connection with Microsoft, this is just my opinion.
I have not yet seen the final release, but I see Orbx has already got 8 products ready to go on the day of release. At a highly discounted price as well.
I just wonder will Microsoft's servers be able to cope with the rush on the 18th... 8)
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: bernard S on August 13, 2020, 08:36:11 am
now   all you need is collimation
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: FredK on August 13, 2020, 09:17:00 am
Quote from: bernard S on August 13, 2020, 08:36:11 amnow   all you need is collimation

More important to me is multi-channel...or at least a multi-screen proposition that will work smoothly with reasonable slider settings and 4K resolution etc.  From what I have gleaned all that nice eye candy is not translating to an easier processing burden on the hardware.

Have not heard anything at all about multi-channel....and not at all clear how that will work with separate (but synced) streaming feeds to multiple computers.  Perhaps those multiple feeds could be routed indirectly through the server, but that would be different than the way ViewGroups works for multichannel now.  In the current ViewGroups case for multi-channel only positional and attitude data is broadcast to the clients.  I am sure that was not an Asobo priority.

If that's the case that will be a big step backwards for me.

Fred K
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Joe Lavery on August 13, 2020, 01:48:53 pm
I think once the sim is released we will have more idea what their intention is. I can't see them ignoring the needs of one of the biggest captive audiences. It wouldn't make sense not to at least offer what we already have with P3D.
The fact that they've been working on this project for three years and not a peep was known about it, until they made the announcement. Would indicate they have more up their sleeves than they are revealing.
I spoke a length to John Venema the founder of Orbx who has been working with Microsoft for months, yet he didn't even hint at it when asked about the new sim.
So as John said, just a few more days to go... Tik Tok...
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: bernard S on August 14, 2020, 12:56:45 pm
I  have learnt with my sim  as we say in tx if it ain,t broke don,t fix it.. one can end like a puppy chasing that elusive tail
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: jackpilot on August 14, 2020, 04:53:11 pm
Stamped and approved !  :P
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Joe Lavery on August 14, 2020, 11:36:37 pm
As I said, I have no connection with Microsoft so it doesn't matter to me who buys it, or not!
But wait till you see it for yourself, and then say you're not interested. I was sceptical when I heard the first announcement, so let's all wait and see if it comes with the interface we need. Otherwise like you, I will keep my PIT running with P3D, although I have also been looking at X-Plane.... but that's another rabbit hole!  8) 
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: blueskydriver on August 15, 2020, 12:44:58 am
Hey Everyone,

That's the great thing about all of us builders, we can be serious and we can be funny, but we never get mad at each other because we know things in this hobby always get better with time.  ;D

In fact, take a look at this builder's YT video here:

https://youtu.be/O9qeuqSemBI

What do you notice? IMHO, it looks more like a full size aircraft; however, it's just 3 screens. He doesn't even have a MIP, but he has controls and a center screen (guessing GPS unit).

My point is, look how far a simple desktop setup can be made better by just a few ideas. Plus, if we think of what MSFS2020 might become (a spark if you will), as well as basing past things on FSX, P3D and XP, we should see a whole new group of builders get into the hobby.

In other words, since they can do more with less these days; albeit, they may not have all the functionality that we prefer, it'll still get more people involved and they'll bring new ideas. In which case it'll benefit all of us in the future.

If you just think back to 2009/2010 when this website was started, we were still enjoying FSX and XP (no P3D), and it was pretty much PM or SimA. Hardware wise it was just as limited.

Now, look at how far everything has come up until this point; thus, I can only say what a great time to live in for flight simulation....

John

PS Hi Joe, thank you for everything you share with us, without you providing insight we'd still be searching YT for a glimmer of things in MSFS2020 that pertain to us builders.  8)
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Joe Lavery on August 15, 2020, 03:08:28 am
Quote from: blueskydriver on August 15, 2020, 12:44:58 amPS Hi Joe, thank you for everything you share with us, without you providing insight we'd still be searching YT for a glimmer of things in MSFS2020 that pertain to us builders.  8)

Thank you John, and you have expressed what I was trying to say, only much more elegantly...  ;)
Incidentally that cockpit is brilliant, makes you wonder why we go to all these lengths doesn't it.
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: kattz on August 15, 2020, 08:23:24 am
Once ProSim is on board with FS2020, I'll buy it.  I am excited about it, but that AIO issue that a lot of YouTube posts miss is bothersome enough to wait until the bugs are worked out.

Otherwise, it's DCS for now on three screens and no pit.

Right now, my new liquid-cooled build is occupying my time.
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: bernard S on August 15, 2020, 12:04:30 pm
actully joking aside  msfs  is no brainer  i am lucky i only need visuals from it so 
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Joe Lavery on August 15, 2020, 05:12:18 pm
Quote from: bernard S on August 15, 2020, 12:04:30 pmactully joking aside  msfs  is no brainer  i am lucky i only need visuals from it so 

I think that's what most of us use with FSX, P3D, or X-plane anyway.
And like Kevin, I had to build a pretty hefty machine to run it on. Firstly it only runs on Windows 10, so I had to get that and to run it at the resolution and graphic setting I wanted, I built a new system.
This is what I now have.

Intel i7 9700K 3.60 GHz Processor with Corsair Liquid Cooler.
ASUS TUF Z390-Plus Gaming (Wi-Fi) LGA1151 Motherboard
32 GB DDR4 3200 MHz RAM
Gigabyte GTX 1080Ti, 11 GB GDDR5 Video card
1 x 1 TB Crucial NVMe M.2 SSD
1 x 6 Terrabyte Samsung Hard Drive.
32 inch 4K iiyama Monitor

This will migrate into my PIT (when and if) MSFS has the hooks to operate the PM system without any control issues.
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: kattz on August 16, 2020, 12:04:04 pm
Quote from: Joe Lavery on August 15, 2020, 05:12:18 pmI think that's what most of us use with FSX, P3D, or X-plane anyway.
And like Kevin, I had to build a pretty hefty machine to run it on. Firstly it only runs on Windows 10, so I had to get that and to run it at the resolution and graphic setting I wanted, I built a new system.
This is what I now have.

Intel i7 9700K 3.60 GHz Processor with Corsair Liquid Cooler.
ASUS TUF Z390-Plus Gaming (Wi-Fi) LGA1151 Motherboard
32 GB DDR4 3200 MHz RAM
Gigabyte GTX 1080Ti, 11 GB GDDR5 Video card
1 x 1 TB Crucial NVMe M.2 SSD
1 x 6 Terrabyte Samsung Hard Drive.
32 inch 4K iiyama Monitor

This will migrate into my PIT (when and if) MSFS has the hooks to operate the PM system without any control issues.


Intel i7-10700 octacore CPU
Asus ROG Maximus XII Formula LGA 1200 Intel Z390 mobo
16Gb X 4 (total 64Gb) Z.Skill NEO low latency DDR4 4400Mhz RAM
ASUS ROG RTX 2080 TI OC 11 Gb x 2 video cards
512Gb PCIe M.2 drive on mobo M.2 slot 1 for Win10 Pro
2TB PCIe M.2 drive on mobo M.2 slot 2 for user and program files
512Gb PCIe M.2 drive on mobo M.2 slot 3 for MSFS 2020
2Tb Samsung 890 Pro SSD for fast library
8Tb Seagate IronWolf hybrid HDD for misc library
Video cards cooled by 420mm radiator on front of case
CPU and VRMs cooled by 360mm radiator on top of case

Proverbial can o' whoop a$$ in a case.
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: blueskydriver on August 16, 2020, 08:12:59 pm
Hey Joe, thank you. Also, where did you buy all your PC items, one place or multiple?

Hey Kevin, like Joe, you provided a great shopping list, but where did you purchase everything?

I've been looking at investing into a setup like the two of you have, and in the past I purchased from NewEgg or TigerDirect. Likely, I'll go there again unless you guys have something better...

John
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Joe Lavery on August 16, 2020, 10:56:10 pm
John,
The majority of the parts were bought from Amazon UK, who at the time were cheaper than the major PC sellers over here. But I think you guys in the US have a better range of sellers than we do.
I bought the RAM and SSD from a company called BOX and the Gigabyte  1080Ti from a guy on eBay. It's always a risk buying such items from eBay, but he had 100% feedback and as it happens it's been performing fine for over two months now.
With my rig  I get 50-60 frames a second with most of the sliders set to Ultra. These setting were set by the program when I installed it and I haven't changed them since.

Well today is the last day for those with Alpha and Beta versions of MSFS, they will not work after today. But I'm told I'll have the full version by this weekend.
But I expect to see thousands of screen shots and reports from all of you by then.  :o  :)  ;D 

The first flight should be to find your own house, isn't that what everyone does? I sincerely hope that those that buy it are as impressed as I was.
I'm not knocking our current sims, but IMHO this is a giant leap forward for our hobby.

Joe

Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Neil Hewitt on August 17, 2020, 04:57:51 am
So technically the sim is already released - in Kiribati :-) People have found various ways to fool the Xbox app into thinking they are in the right timezone and are playing it already.

Testers are still (and will continue to be) under NDA, but anything that's public is fair game, so by now you'll doubtless know that there's no multi-screen, no out of the cockpit view without a VC, no pop-up gauges, and no multi-channel. I'm quite sure all of those will come in time (and there is at least a workaround for the non-VC cockpit view) except for multi-channel, which I don't expect the sim to ever natively support (ESP didn't, and anyway this is clearly an entertainment product), but I'm sure one of Wideview or Opus will get ported, or someone will come up with something new. As long as Position Freeze User is available via Simconnect then it's doable.

However, I don't expect these features to come soon. I expect Asobo to concentrate on fixing the huge long tail of bugs the testers have found for them, and the VR and world updates they've already announced. They say pop-up gauges are hard because of the way the rendering engine is designed. Multi-screen is something they want to do but they want to do it properly. If all of it happens in 2021 I'll be surprised.

This is an ingenious community so I'm sure people will start finding ways to integrate MSFS into simpits. It'll be fun to watch. But for now it's pointless for my setup. I may well buy it anyway and run it on my desktop setup with a HOTAS, but I'll need a GPU upgrade on that machine to do it!

What are others here going to do? Buy or wait?


Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: FredK on August 17, 2020, 09:37:56 am
Quote from: Neil Hewitt on August 17, 2020, 04:57:51 amSo technically the sim is already released - in Kiribati :-) People have found various ways to fool the Xbox app into thinking they are in the right timezone and are playing it already.

Testers are still (and will continue to be) under NDA, but anything that's public is fair game, so by now you'll doubtless know that there's no multi-screen, no out of the cockpit view without a VC, no pop-up gauges, and no multi-channel. I'm quite sure all of those will come in time (and there is at least a workaround for the non-VC cockpit view) except for multi-channel, which I don't expect the sim to ever natively support (ESP didn't, and anyway this is clearly an entertainment product), but I'm sure one of Wideview or Opus will get ported, or someone will come up with something new. As long as Position Freeze User is available via Simconnect then it's doable.

However, I don't expect these features to come soon. I expect Asobo to concentrate on fixing the huge long tail of bugs the testers have found for them, and the VR and world updates they've already announced. They say pop-up gauges are hard because of the way the rendering engine is designed. Multi-screen is something they want to do but they want to do it properly. If all of it happens in 2021 I'll be surprised.

This is an ingenious community so I'm sure people will start finding ways to integrate MSFS into simpits. It'll be fun to watch. But for now it's pointless for my setup. I may well buy it anyway and run it on my desktop setup with a HOTAS, but I'll need a GPU upgrade on that machine to do it!

What are others here going to do? Buy or wait?




YES...and....NO.....

I am certainly going to buy it to see first hand what it is all about, but it is not going to replace P3DV4.5 in my cockpit sim.  For the time being MSFS2020 will reside on my personal desktop computer only.

I have a full-scale 737 cockpit and I use multi-channel projection display.  Given that I am flying a 737 the eye candy that is most important to me are the departing and arriving airports and weather display while in the air.  Since while in the air I am mostly flying at 35,000 ft detailed ground rendering really is not all that important....can't really view it that far up and through the clouds and haze etc.  In that regard I have 95 airport and city scenery add-ons for detail realism, and I most often fly in and out of only those.  (BTW...MSFS2020 to start has far fewer than that from what I understand).  I am also perfectly content with FSGRW as my weather engine.  And most of all I am content with both P3D and SimA performance right now.....no insane need to tweak things and absolutely no crashes....zero!

So yes,  I will hook up a joystick to my personal desktop computer so I can buzz my own house etc, but then again I can easily do that by just slewing around Googlemaps as well.  So I may quickly become bored with it.

That said, I am curious to see what it is all about, and hopefully MSFS2020 will eventually evolve into something useful for cockpitbuilders.  Hopefully!  And hopefully MS will not suck up all the flight sim energy only to have it all blow-up 3 years from now.

Fred K
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Trevor Hale on August 17, 2020, 03:05:04 pm
I Have confirmed You can easily have an out of the cockpit view, the Aircraft config files are the same as before, just split into multiple files instead of one file. So aircraft config tinkering is as easy as before...

The Model (mdl) file goes away and is split into a few other files similar to Xplane.

The Cameras can be easily configured, and similar to P3D, that's why I figure multi display will be easily not far in the distance.

FSUIPC will be released tomorrow with limited functionality, (NO LVAR INTEGRATION) However still has full lua functionality.

Wach tomorrow night's twitch stream of mine, I will have my King Air running on 2020 Tomorrow night.  (With one outside view).  to some extent LOL
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: blueskydriver on August 17, 2020, 03:39:14 pm
Trevor, does that mean you'll have that instruction sheet/pdf ready for all us by then...lol!

Actually, you should do a YT live stream of setting everything up for a full size flight sim. Not so much for the regular folks here, but for all the new people getting into MSFS2020. They'll be looking for sure.

Already seeing a lot of videos hitting YT, but nothing regarding full size cockpits...

John
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: jackpilot on August 17, 2020, 04:36:01 pm
John...how old are U ?

I know , I know...still too young and enthusiastic to be wise !
 :D
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Joe Lavery on August 17, 2020, 05:35:45 pm
See John, we knew Trevor would have it sorted.... 8)  ;)
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: blueskydriver on August 17, 2020, 06:08:24 pm
Hey Guys, yep it's great hearing that Trevor is digging deep into this. And, by the way it sounds, we all should be rather familiar to this already.

For you Jack, I just hit 55 on August 7th, which is crazy for me since I don't feel that old. I guess there is truth to getting older, but staying young at heart!

John
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: jackpilot on August 18, 2020, 06:06:24 am
55 ! just a KID !
I whish I would be back there  :P
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: blueskydriver on August 18, 2020, 09:45:26 am
Hey Jack, you're still back here!

Look at your sim, it takes wisdom yes, but stamina of a younger man as well, and you're putting some of us young boys too shame!

It's all good buddy 😁

John

Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: kattz on August 22, 2020, 04:26:38 pm
Quote from: blueskydriver on August 16, 2020, 08:12:59 pmHey Joe, thank you. Also, where did you buy all your PC items, one place or multiple?

Hey Kevin, like Joe, you provided a great shopping list, but where did you purchase everything?

I've been looking at investing into a setup like the two of you have, and in the past I purchased from NewEgg or TigerDirect. Likely, I'll go there again unless you guys have something better...

John

Micro Center, John!  Cheapest around.

And I turned 55 August 12th.

Kev
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: n4208t on August 23, 2020, 04:23:49 pm
Hey guys.  For those of you using MSFS 2020 and especially those who were in the alpha/beta test program, I was literally just about to buy the sim but noticed something that bothers me.  (I just put a brand new motherboard and the latest i7 processor and a water cooled fan in my main machine and wanted to test it out)

There is a disclaimer on the Microsoft store website that states "This app can
Access all your files, peripheral devices, apps, programs and registry
Access your Internet connection"  It can and does also apparently write to the registry without your permission on doing some additional research.

Microsoft has been including a lot of data mining/retrieval stuff in the latest windows 10 versions and though most of it can be turned off, you have to be aware of it and you have to go looking for it in order to turn it off. MS is getting as bad as Google and Facebook in terms of gathering information about all of us.

I used to do a lot of work with them in the healthcare and predictive analytics arena and they are very different company than they used to be.

Any of the beta testers have any comments/insight on this aspect of the new sim?  I personally think there is way too much invasion of everyone's privacy and though I have nothing to hide, I do not like the idea of anyone, including Microsoft, gathering info from my activities.  That is one reason why I really like stand-alone programs.

Comments?

Steve
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: n4208t on August 24, 2020, 03:14:16 am
Clarification ... not looking to start a conversation about privacy or data mining etc.  Just wondering if anyone knows exactly what information the software actually gathers and, to what extent, it is sending info back to Microsoft.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: bernard S on August 24, 2020, 10:52:14 am
here here i get super vexed about i use stnd alone as much as pos i am lucky my sim is stand alone ..they want two things and in this order  your info then your bucks .. 
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: blueskydriver on August 24, 2020, 08:37:00 pm
One of the better YT videos I've seen thus far concerning MSFS 2020 hardware.

https://youtu.be/y6RIvvMPBTg

John
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Joe Lavery on August 25, 2020, 01:23:33 am
That's an interesting video indeed, but he hasn't considered the 1080Ti which was last years top card, now cheaper that even the 2070 card which it outperforms by some margin.
I have two systems running the 1080Ti, I get 30-35 fsp with settings set at ULTRA in MSFS 2020, no stutters at all, this is at 4K resolution.
Yet one of our writers runs a similar setup and gets poor performance. In the same way I had no issues at all installing the program, but I see many others have had all sorts of problems. I guess it's still something of a lottery until they iron out all these issues. 

Just my 2 cents :-)
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: jackpilot on August 25, 2020, 05:20:37 am
Joe, they know who you are and they sent you the ultimate version nobody has (including themselves)  :D
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Joe Lavery on August 25, 2020, 06:47:32 am
Now that I never thought of Jack ....   8) ;)  :)
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: KyleH on August 25, 2020, 08:18:40 am
Quote from: blueskydriver on August 24, 2020, 08:37:00 pmOne of the better YT videos I've seen thus far concerning MSFS 2020 hardware.

https://youtu.be/y6RIvvMPBTg

John

IT's NOT A 'GAME!'

:)
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Joe Lavery on August 25, 2020, 10:32:43 am
Hey Kyle, don't tell all those X-Box players, we want as many people buying it to keep MS developing it.  :laugh:  8)
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: jackpilot on August 26, 2020, 04:56:02 pm
Quote from: KyleH on August 25, 2020, 08:18:40 amIT's NOT A 'GAME!'



I"m afraid it is !
Outer skin is nice though

Most people have a sweet spot for aviation and flying, hence the buzz around that "NEW" Flight simulator because it LOOKS terrific.
Awe effect. Well done MS !
What we expect from a "non game" Flightsim is totally alien to the gaming crowd and they are the majority.
Stick with aerospace people.
My two cents
Jack
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: bernard S on August 27, 2020, 01:08:33 pm
well for those that require higher fps  how about 1000 out of an i7    stupid like being worth 200b but can be done    why stupid   eye can not register 1000fps and brain can not imgine 200b as dollars
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Joe Lavery on August 27, 2020, 10:45:38 pm
Some real thought provoking information there Bernard.... I think!!!  8)  :)  ;D  :laugh:
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: RayS on August 28, 2020, 01:03:19 pm
Lifted this interesting article from the WaPo:

Storm Chasing in MSFS2020  (https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2020/08/27/would-be-stormchasers-microsoft-flight-simulator-observed-hurricane-laura-real-time/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_launcher-laura-1115am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans)
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: jackpilot on August 28, 2020, 04:17:55 pm
Check the video, not a peep of turbulence, clear smooth sailing...! :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqqUiXztuws&feature=emb_logo

Seems like Media are discovering Flight simulation.
Soon it will allow personal no cost travel..no need to get out of your couch.
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: blueskydriver on September 01, 2020, 12:04:02 pm
Anyone watch the NVIDIA live announcement? I did, here comes RTX 3080 on September 17th...

As I was saying, every new cycle of flight simulator is tied to needing better hardware; unless, you already had it right before.

Oh well, now waiting for the 17th...lol!

John
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Joe Lavery on September 02, 2020, 10:48:24 am
Just had the MSFS 2020 update from Microsoft today. I haven't checked it all out yet but I guess the updated notes will be worth a read.
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: kattz on September 02, 2020, 04:11:48 pm
Quote from: blueskydriver on September 01, 2020, 12:04:02 pmAnyone watch the NVIDIA live announcement? I did, here comes RTX 3080 on September 17th...

As I was saying, every new cycle of flight simulator is tied to needing better hardware; unless, you already had it right before.

Oh well, now waiting for the 17th...lol!

John

Hey, John,

The 3XXX-series will use PCIe 4.0 is my understanding and not be backwards-compatible to PCIe 3.X. 

Later edit:  John, the cards will support PCIe 3.x.  They will also support PCIe 4.0.

I'm planning to pick up the 3080.  3090 is nice, but... maybe.

Kev
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Joe Lavery on September 04, 2020, 01:07:47 am
Just a few notes on MSFS:
Microsoft announced yesterday that in the first 7 days they sold over 1 million copies and those "pilots" flew over a billion miles. So of course the more people that buy it the more investment they will make.

Also the update has fixed the Simconnect issue, with users reporting average frame rates of up to 60 fsp. Also for those that use Arduino and particularly those that use MobiFlight. The new update works perfectly with the FSUIPC 7 Beta. That of course means for the controls that have been implemented. Some aircraft still have some buttons and switches that are marked as INOP.

Joe.
Title: Microsoft flight sim 2020
Post by: Joe Lavery on September 16, 2020, 02:59:24 am
Hi all,
In case those who are testing MSFS have not found it yet there is a website dedicated to freeware and other stuff for the new platform:
It's nicely laid out, has a forum and a Discord, more importantly the download speeds are very good at the moment, I guess they will add a tiered premium method once they get enough users, like flightsim.com did. The site is:

https://flightsim.to

Up to the time of writing they have:

85 new or adapted airports
108 landmarks, things like stadiums bridges and other items missing or badly made in the sim.
Approximately 200 new liveries covering many of the aircraft.

If you don't feel like browsing there's a master list of each element with hyperlinks. Some are very good and others are just a bit better than the original, but worth a look. I've installed a few and they fit pretty well into the sim. It's just a matter of dropping the item folder into your Community folder; that's it.
There is generally instructions on how to do this anyway.

Incidentally I have no connection with this site, so as usual it's your decision whether to use this stuff or not.  8)  :laugh:

Cheers
Joe.

Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Joe Lavery on September 18, 2020, 12:50:45 am
Another patch released last night, 11GB should fix a few issues.
(Correction the patch is actually 15.69 GB) I've just installed it!  :-)
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: n4208t on September 23, 2020, 03:00:44 am
Well I took the plunge and bought MSFS 2020 about 3 weeks ago.  I did put it on a separate drive with its own version of Windows and still mostly fly P3D but I could not resist.  Still do not like the way that they have set it up as an X-Box type "app" and it is definitely still a late beta, but it is an interesting sim with definite possibilities as it evolves.  And the graphics are beautiful.

Have had the usual crashes and growing pains but with the last patch I am seeing consistent FPS of 30-40 running a 2070 on 3 55 inch monitors in surround but not at the full resolution.  But I can run it at Ultra settings.

Of note.  I flew out of Denver yesterday in the Caravan into some fairly light clouds and I PICKED UP ICING ON THE WINDSCREEN.  Now I will admit that was cool and something I have not experienced before, except in real life.  Not only that, but once I got below the clouds, it took a while for the ice to dissipate slowly, not all at once.  I was and am impressed and hope that there are going to be other things like this.  Have never seen that in P3D or any other sim.

Steve
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Joe Lavery on September 23, 2020, 05:53:41 am
Steve, have you see the waves at low level with the wind blowing, it's tremendous. And I know it's all eye candy really, but what a difference it makes to the perception of reality.
 :2cw:
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: navymustang on September 23, 2020, 12:33:44 pm
Just think what this will be like to fly helicopters when they become available. !!!
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: jackpilot on September 24, 2020, 12:09:05 pm
If weather is correctly modeled, what about Gliders !! ::)
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Joe Lavery on September 24, 2020, 05:37:00 pm
For those that don't get the Microsoft update notifications, there's a new update to be released on 29th. It mainly features Japan, with new hand crafted airports abd cities.
The trailer looks impressive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pue2-OS4Kl8

Joe.
Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: Joe Lavery on September 25, 2020, 04:21:05 pm
If you're one of those new to MSFS and remember the days when Meigs Field was the beginning of many simulated flights. Well you can again, because someone by the name of GuillermoZS has just released it as freeware for the new sim. It's available on the Flightsim.to website.

https://flightsim.to/file/834/merril-c-meigs-field-kcgx

Joe.

Title: Re: Microsoft flight sim 2020 pre-order open
Post by: ame on September 25, 2020, 06:04:16 pm
Saw this interesting design to modify an Xbox controller with a larger joystick and throttle.
https://hackaday.com/2020/09/25/xbox-controller-gets-snap-on-joystick-from-clever-3d-printed-design/