Sound System Recommendations for full shell ?

[XOrionFE]

It is time for me to start exploring Sound options for my setup.    I would be interested in hearing what others are doing along with details.   There is another thread here that has some information but looking for a little more detail.   For instance, Michael Carter I think has a regular home theater type system.   Is that the best way to go?    How does that interface with computer sound card?    What are some good sound card recommendations?   What are good speakers out there?  Finally, if there are must have addons then please list and explain why they are good.

I know this is a lot but I think this could be a great discussion topic.   Sound is definitely not my area of expertise and I know nothing about the various systems/options out there.   Audio gurus speak up :-).

Thank you,
Scott

[Bob Reed]

Ok Scott I know you have told me but what version of FS are you using again? This makes a differance because FSX will use 2 sound cards..I had a great sound setup in my old 737 cockpit and will give you more details when I know what you are using.

[XOrionFE]

I am using FSX.  Thanks Bob.

[Bob Reed]

Ok so from within FSX you can use 2 sound cards. So think about where all the sounds come from. Get PMSounds it is a free program and works great! How many computers are you going to be using to run the sim? That is how many computers you have to make sounds with. You need air rushing over the shell from the front of the sim, engine sounds from behind the cockpit warning buzzers and call outs from overhead speakers. So what I did, good sound system for the main sim noises and a good sub woofer is a must to get the bumps and bangs inside the jet. Feeling the bumb bumb bumb while you taxi  and the thump as the gear locks up is amazing! I used just plain ole computer speakers for the rest including the air sound from the nose just put PMsounds on the other computers and run the speakers and then setup PMsounds. I can help with that once you are ready. Hope this helps ask more questions if you need something clarified.

[XOrionFE]

Do you have any sound card recommendations Bob?  I was looking at Tiger Direct and see there are some Sound Blaster Audigy's reasonably priced.    I am not having good sound from the onboard sound card on my motherboard.

I will also download PMSounds and check it out.

I am planning on 3 computers right now.   Main FSX computer, Main Sim-Avionics Computer (Server, DUs, EICAS, Capt CDU), and a 3rd computer to run more SimA (FO CDU, Lower MFD), as well as utilities such as FS Commander, Radar Contact, Squak Box, etc.)

Scott

[Bob Reed]

The Audigy is a decent card although outdated. I am using it right now to record with. So with 3 computers you will be able to have 4 sound sources. I would use the onboard of the main computer for some of the secondary sounds with PMsounds and use the new card for the main outs then get like the Creative 5.1 surround sound system, one of the better ones,  I don;t know the extent of what can be done sound wise in FSX as far as moving sounds around but I think you can. Maybe someone else can chime in here that uses FSX. You can put PMSounds on the other 2 and use that to add some of your other sounds. PMsounds will do all your avionics sounds such as gyros spinning, fans and even the air running over the nose. You will want to use 1 of the sound sources for ATC so you can run that through head sets.

[Emesis]

Scott,

Which ever system you choose make sure you include a ButtKicker® in the mix. I added one to my system and it definitely helps with the immersion factor.
It will rattle everything in the cockpit especially on landings and when you kick in the TR's. I really enjoy it. 

Cheers,
Rand

[ian@737ng.co.uk]

hello scott........
given that you have several computers on your system, quite rightly as Bob says, you have that many souces to generate sounds from.       being a simple sort of chap, i try to keep it simple, so i use a 5.1 cinema amp which allows me 5 seperate inputs into the amp.
ok, i use FS9, so two inputs to the amp come from FS9 itself with the speakers placed slightly behind and above the pilots head.  this input source is also attached to an active subwoofer again as Bob says transmits all the rumble and bumps especially as i have it bolted to the MIP stand.     my services computer which runs Active Sky, Squawkbox etc is hooked up to two inputs which allow me to have the overhead speakers relay ATIS and Comms radio from the controllers.
the fifth input has the interphones and PA attached to it, so i can scream abuse at the passengers. 
works very well for me, i am using a Creative Soundcard in the Main FS machine (sorry, i cant remember the model) and the
onboard sound cards in the other two machines.    but i suspect you may be looking for something better 
i think one of the major factors is the quality of your amplifier and the speakers that you use.
did this a long time ago, but it has stood the test of time, works well for me and people always comment on the sound.
hopefully, it may give you some ideas........
http://www.737ng.co.uk/sound.pdf
rgds from wales.......

ian

p.s. maybe you should look at bass 'rumblers' as well.

[XOrionFE]

Thank you Ian.  Nice document!

[Bob Reed]

Yes bass rumblers look at them/

[ETomlin]

Similar here- I have the FS machine spewing out the standard FS sounds and a 2nd machine spewing PM Sounds as well as the JET45 sounds. Soon enough, I will have another machine playing Radar Contact or Squawk Box and I may even run a 2nd copy of FS on another machine to throw in some more sounds, particularly routing ATC thru headphones and the overhead speakers. Shane does this via the Goflight unit. I am off to view Ian's document. Im sure that will improve my plans quite a bit. Oh yeah, I forgot to say that I have a Butt Kicker gamer attached to the floor and hidden in the Center Pedestal. It is a must- have.

[ETomlin]

See, now I just took 5 minutes to realize something totally new that I had NEVER thought of. Very good document there and Im glad I did take the time to read it as I had never given thought to using all those inputs in my very similar 5.1 system to play sounds from multiple computers. This is a saving item here because Ive been in need of a 3rd set of speakers and it had never occurred to me that I could run it this way. Excellent.

[ian@737ng.co.uk]

well Eric, we aim to please 
for me the Subwoofer is the best bit because as it's active it just gives me so much control over Low Frequency Volume (and of course Vibration).   but i can only have it so high because the Garage Door vibrates and the neighbour's complain 
so that's why over the winter i'll be looking at some bass rumblers.     but i'll keep the Sub because it just adds so much to the
Low End part of the spectrum (rumble, Thumps, Lightning, Gear Up/Down etc).
glad to have been of some help.
have a great day...

ian

[ivar hestnes]

I would not spend too much time on PMsounds in a sim-a setup as PM sounds is offset based, and sim-a sounds is run by its server application. Spend the time on sim-a sound module. One system in front of the sim (winds, inner, middle and outer marker), one system in the roof( Tcas, elec noise++). Delete the sounds you dont want/need, as the sound module will ignore if sounds is not there.

I will recommend the turbine sound studios 737 stuff for FSX. It is very good. And then the big challenge... To delete sounds that are duplicated with sim-a (Tcas, markers+++). And again spend a huge amount of time to grab sounds from other 737 addons, until you find the sounds that sound best compared to the real one. (This is a very time consumingh job that never ends, lol).

But anyway, of course PMsounds is a great tool if there are some offsets you want to trigger a sound. So a good mix of them all is worth investigating on.

One thing that will make you crazy.... volumes. Finetuning of audio volumes so that soundsystem 1 dont make soundsystem 2 un-hearable...... This is a neverending story to find the perfect balance between the different systems. But it is fun to play with sounds. If some sounds in sim-a is "lower" than what you want compared to another sound, you can edit the volumes in a sound editor. Very useful for some sounds.

Sound systems: Anything but the cheapest stuff will do. I have a mix of car audio, Hifi and computer sound systems. Use the most powerful system for the FSX sounds. I use a Hifi system there. 

Playing with sounds is actually very good fun when you get started with it. And here as in all other aspects, time spent = Result you want

[XOrionFE]

Thank you Ivar.  Also thank you for noting the addons.  I had looked at some of these but hadnt purchased yet.

I was thinking about that because I downloaded PMSounds this morning and was looking at all of the different items and am already running the Sim A sounds program so I was trying to compare them.    I have also had problems with the Sim A doing the callouts on takeoffs but still playing with it.   

I do have another question.   In the real plane what sounds are played over the overhead speakers?  Is this where all callouts and warnings eminate?

I was out today and picked up a decent Creative Sound card along with a moderately expensive 5.1 surround speaker system from Logitech.   It is the Logitech z-5500 and has a build in amp.  It does 500 watts and seems to have raving reviews.    Huge Subwoofer...

I was planning to use this on the main FSX system and put the sub just behind the mip but hardmounted with a strap to the floor (8x8) base on wheels.   Eventually I may add the buttkickers as Rand and Eric suggested.  This would then give 2 front speakers, 2 rear speakers, and a center channel.

Next I was going to run a pair of speakers off the Sim-A server to the overhead where the two speaker openings are in the ceiling triangles for all of the callouts.

Finally off 3rd computer I planned on running ATC (Radar Contact)/Squak Box to the headphone jacks and find some aviation headsets from APHS or somewhere.

Does this make sense or am I off base in my thinking somewhere?

Scott

[dharrison]

Scott,

You will find that many times the overhead is used to transmit ATC, particularly duing setup when you are getting clearances and listening to atis. Some pilots use it all the time. You don't want to be tethered to the a/c duing preflight setup.

Not required but a neat feature.

Don

[Boeing Skunk Works]

I can second the TSS sounds. I had to do very little editing for my setup. It automatically took over the landing gear, engine, and wind sounds that are much better than the standard Dreamfleet sounds. Especially the engine sounds.

It didn't interfere with any of the cockpit sounds unless I just don't know it and Dreamfleet had those all correct to begin with.