Good and cost efficient shaker to the cockpit

[Vectro]

Hi,

I am looking for a good, cost efficient and easy to set up shaker system to our Cessna sim.
I have found few commercial products like the Buttkicker but I would like to have your opinion too.

I've seen some projects where a normal home stereo bass elements are attached to the seat cushions.

Currently we are using Creative Labs home theatre sound system for the sound so it would be good if this bass shaker solution could be connected directly to this system.

One option could also be this Aura system:
http://www.electronichouse.com/images/slideshow/AuraSound-3b-04.jpg

I would really appreciate if you could post your pictures for this kind of solution.

BR,
Olli-Petteri

[ETomlin]

I have the Buttkicker Gamer and it's plenty for my full size LJ45 sin.  I had a custom bracket made to mount the device to that is in turn, mounted to the floor/simulator base and hidden in the center pedestal. I have plenty of effect from this unit with the volume turned down quite a bit.

[Vectro]

Does the output signal comes directly from the soundcards output to the amp&shaker?

[saabpilot]

HI, i too use the Buttkicker Gamer with very nice results.
But - you should not attach it to an amplifier, but instead use the Y cable supplied direct to the soundcard.

Why ?  You will need the Buttkicker to have a constant soundlevel = the PC output, this since you might like to vary the output from the Creative amplifier separately without having to readjust the Buttkicker.

With real flightdeck chairs you have to mount the bass unit on a piece of pipe directly on the flightdeck floor.
This is an advantage not a drawback as you will feel all "bumps" both in the steering column and the rudder pedals (depending of course on your yoke/rudder/floor setup)

Best,
Bjorn

[Vectro]

Sounds perfect because I have mostly been worried about the sound output connection problems. In Creative Labs setups all loudspeakers are connected to one sub/amp inputs. The soundcard output goes directly into this sub so it seems that I should connect this Y-cable directly to my computers soundcard output. This way another end of the Y-cable would still go to the sub and the other end into the Buttkicker.

Please correct still if I'm wrong but the Buttkicker only makes shaking, not any noise? In my setup, should it be attached to the seat legs or can it be for example in the floor between two seats.

BR,
OP

[Nick1150]

Hi,

I have bought a pair of Woon Bass Shakers, and reallyt make the difference in my cockpit. These shakers, together with my cockpit platform were the best "value for money" things I have made since the beggining of my project. Both were installed under the CPT and F/O side and connected to a sound amp.





Specs:

Diameter: 5.827 x 1.575 inches (148 x 40mm) (h)
Impedance: 2 Ohms
Power RMS: 60 (120 Watts RMS Total)
Power MAX: 100 (200 Watts Total)
Resonance Frequency Range: 20 ~ 80 hz
Weight: 5.5 lbs pair
Cost: around $40 each with shipping to Athens

Hope that helps,

Nick

[Vectro]

Thanks Nick,

Also found these Aura Shakers via Google. Any experiences about these:

http://www.autotoys.com/New_Tech/Cust_Installs/auratp/auraa2.jpg

http://www.electronichouse.com/images/slideshow/AuraSound-3b-04.jpg

It seems that these kind of shakers would fit better to our seats than the Buttkicker.

At least it would be easier to attach these to my new upcoming seat frames. There is even
excellent rail with ready-made holes under the seat springs: 
http://www.lentosimulaattori.1g.fi/kuvat/assorted+construction+pictures/Seats/project+2+-+2011/20110122_003.jpg

[Emesis]

Vectro,

My vote goes for the Buttkicker. Really inexpensive (mine was under $100 w/coupon) and they work great. Very easy to set up and control with the remote. This is the one I received, the Buttkicker gamer II
http://www.buttkickergear.com/product_p/bk-gr.htm

Cheers,
Rand

[Vectro]

thx Rand,
I am a bit confused with the Buttkicker prices. In some articles I've seen pricing more close to 800$ with their amp. Could the whole setup be only a bit over 100$?

Also do you know can you chain more than one shaker from a single amp. I would need one shaker for each seat (2).

[NeoMorph]

I'm confused as well. I thought stick shakers were actually in the control column... of course for those sims like Cessnas which don't have control columns I would have thought they would be connected to the Yoke.

I was under the impression that the stick shaker was an electric motor with an off-centre weight on the spindle... As the spindle spins, the weight throws the stick around and shakes it like a dog with a chew toy. This is one reason you need a relay card in your sim. The current for the motor needed to shake airline control columns is going to be humungeroooonous (that's a scientific term that means "A LOT") as I think Jack found out when he played with his vibrator... err... control column that he got off ebay.

[Efe]

NeoMorph you are right about stick shakers. The shaker in discussion in this thread, however, is a environment shaker. It takes input from the sound system (bass) and translates this to vibrations. This in term makes the cockpit experience more realistic for non-motion cockpits, producing vibration in cue with the engines of the aircraft. It has no relation whatever to the stick shaker or the operational principle of a stick shaker. Hope this gives you come clarity in regards to what is being discussed...

[Emesis]

Vectro,

I know they make different models of the units for gamers, home theaters, and musicians, so that may be where you're seeing the different price ranges. I really don't know if you can hook another transducer to my setup, I didn't check, but I'm sure the larger units with the bigger amps probably have that option.

Cheers

[Nick1150]

Thanks Nick,

Also found these Aura Shakers via Google. Any experiences about these:

http://www.autotoys.com/New_Tech/Cust_Installs/auratp/auraa2.jpg

http://www.electronichouse.com/images/slideshow/AuraSound-3b-04.jpg

It seems that these kind of shakers would fit better to our seats than the Buttkicker.

At least it would be easier to attach these to my new upcoming seat frames. There is even
excellent rail with ready-made holes under the seat springs: 
http://www.lentosimulaattori.1g.fi/kuvat/assorted+construction+pictures/Seats/project+2+-+2011/20110122_003.jpg

Hi Vectro,

Well my primary research was for the Aura shakers, but I realised that the Aura technology is a few years behind the Woon shakers, and to be honest it was more easy for me to buy the Woon, cause are sold in Europe vs Aura which are not sold here. So I decided to go the Woon way.....

I am happy with those and in fact I am so happy that I will order two more soon.....

The reason I am ordeing two more is that on the one hand my amp has two 4 ohms each channels, so I can take advantage of the second channel and add more rumble to my project and on the other hand what I have not realised is that when opening the volume to create more vibration from the shakers, you can hear other (non-bass) sound too from the shakers. When the volume is in an average level, the shakers create only vibration and the rest of the frequencies are not heard at all. With that said if I put 2 more shakers (4 in total) below my cockpit base I can have the volume level low and still have great results in vibrations.

With all above I do not know the difference between Aura and Woon, since I have never tried Aura shakers, but I know I am happy with Woon shakers and I would recomend them to everyone.

Hope that helps a bit,

Regards

Nick

[NeoMorph]

NeoMorph you are right about stick shakers. The shaker in discussion in this thread, however, is a environment shaker. It takes input from the sound system (bass) and translates this to vibrations. This in term makes the cockpit experience more realistic for non-motion cockpits, producing vibration in cue with the engines of the aircraft. It has no relation whatever to the stick shaker or the operational principle of a stick shaker. Hope this gives you come clarity in regards to what is being discussed...

Don't mind me... I'm an idiot lol.

I was under the impression they connected to the control columns some way which was why I was confused. Actually they sound like they would be awesome (or not sound in this case heh). One of the downsides of my system is that it will have to have the sounds done all through the headsets as I have neighbours who would not like whoops and beeps going off at all hours of the day. As I do a lot of gaming as well I use a good pair of headphones that have EIGHT speakers in them. I've been using them to run my test bed and the audio is very acceptable. Having the base shaker added would increase the immersion as well.

Now here is my latest confusion item... Most of the aircraft seats I see are REALLY sturdily built which would have negative effect on the buttkickers I would have thought. Wouldn't some sort of floating mechanism improve the effects of the buttkicker as well and reducing the amount of vibration transmitted into the floor? Normal office and gaming chairs are not so rigid, allowing the vibration to be transmitted to the pilot. Basically you want the opposite to what vibration isolators do for things like CD and record players.