Painting panels

[hexpope]

I am currently painting panels for cockpit, and I must say they are turning out ok, but not to the perfect standard that I wish. I am using arylic paint from an auto store which seem to work  ok, but for the Boeing 777 it seems I need to either have 20 coats of that paint colour or use black for the first 3 coats and then apply another 2-3 coats of the finish colour so I don't get any light bleed and also have a final finish colour of my panel.

Do you guys have any tips at all regarding this matter as Im spending loads on spray cans, and i've noticed that they can  carry different PSI per can.

Just a note, I've tried spray painting with compressor with all sorts of PSI, mixture and still couldn't get it right (Orange Peel effect) on all of my panels, it cost me quite a few euros buying this and that to try get the right job done.

If any of your pro's have some hint's or tips it would be great.

[phil744]

Hey Bud,

Painting is a black art in itself, many ways to do it.

Its quite normal to have a black undercoat first followed by your top layer (brown in your case) its how I do it and the real panels are done.

For the black under coat use matt paint, not gloss or satin, matt paint usually has chalk powder in ther (wot gives it its matt effect) chalk alone is a good light block, so having a matt paint is wise, requires less coats to, 4 at the moast, good thing with matt is you can get away regardless of air brush settings and it dries quicker to and is easy to sand out any imperfections.

Another beauty to using matt paint is that it has an effect on the final top coat, gives it more of a satin feel to it, make sure you avoid doing any sanding/touch up between the final layer of black to brown coats, basically when you shoot the first layer of brown the then black panel should be free of imperfections.

For final coat the way i do it is thin as possable, the first coat you can hardly see, i see many people applying the paint too thick and too quick, that gives the orange peel effect and worst case causes the paint to crack around the engraving areas years down the line.

Use a 2 pak automotive paint

Apply 2-4 thin coats, the panel should be a very slight tan colour, then allow it to flash, basically meaning it becomes dry to the touch, usually 10 mins or so, then re apply another 2-4 layers and just slowly build it up.

The Real 777 is slightly different to the 76/74, the texture of the paint is very different to touch, its actually more like a sand paper p1000 grade is very close, to do this you need to do a dry coat, this will sound strange but what you do on the final 2 layers you actually apply the paint dry, basically stand 4 feet away with spray gun ans allow paint to rain onto the panel.

Spray gun setting, i dont have definative values as all systems are different i just tweak as i go, i use a gravity feed 0.8mm nozzle type, easyer to get into tight spaces with, i use very low pressure, not far aerosol force, the paint should be a very light spray almost invisable.

Basically lightly, slowly, take ur time.

One piece of advice i will say is paint in batches, example do your overhead in one hit, its a common mis-conception when using the same can of paint we assume everything will be the same colour, truth is it dont work like that, especially on the brown the finished texture affects colour, spray a panel with several thin coats, then one with one thick coat you would think you used two different types of paints

Have a look at this video (reminds me of home ) you can see them doing the dry coat and other things http://www.gableseng.com/video/high.htm

This is my photo account, may get some tips from here http://www.flickr.com/photos/project75/

hpe that helps and piost some pics of what your upto, may tel me what your doing wrong

Phil

[hexpope]

Hi Phil,

Thanks for taking the time to explain to me in detail about the spray painting. I was using a black gloss for the first few coats, I'll go with matt from now on. Another factor in which you mentioned, is I need to take my time in the painting. I am spraying too much to fast. That is my problem by the looks of it.

I would love to show you some of my work, but I have to wait for a while as my camera is on loan with a friend.

[phil744]

No problem glad to help

[kondrat]

Thanks Phil for detailed tutorial. I am trying to make throttle panels. I will send you pictures when I finished.

Thanks again,

Denis

[NeoMorph]

One other bit of advice I got is to not spray when it is too hot. I couldn't figure out why my custom pc panels paint job was going all patchy. Turned out that was the problem.

[hexpope]

thanks for the tip neo. It doesnt really get hot here, but it gets really cold. Ill need to put antifreeze in my water cooler systems this year.

Sent from my android froyo @ FL370

[phil744]

One other bit of advice I got is to not spray when it is too hot. I couldn't figure out why my custom pc panels paint job was going all patchy. Turned out that was the problem.

Sure that was not down to a condition called "blooming" moisture in the air compressor or humidity causing that?

[NeoMorph]

The problem was that the paint dried too fast on hitting the panels. I was very much a beginner at spray painting at the time (and still am) and I ended up stripping it all back to the undercoat again... several times in fact.

But when I finally used rubbing compound on the last coat... OMG it was so satisfying. The shine came out and made all the work on building up the thin layers worth it. Of course this is different but being patient rather than rushing makes all the difference and strangely enough saves you time.

[hexpope]

yeah I was rushing  alot, which wasted more of my time in the end, as I had to redo the panel. Gonna take my time for my next batch of stuff and do what  Phil stated.

[NeoMorph]

Just looked through some of Phil's flickr stream and all I can say is WOW. That work is beyond amazing. The final panels look like original, factory fresh, parts.

[hexpope]

I agree also.

[Boeing Skunk Works]

Something else that will help is to sand with 400-600 grit before spraying. Also make sure you wipe the panels lightly with a tack rag or wash them in a degreaser or Dawn dishwashing soap and allow to dry.

Don't paint when the humidity is high.

[kondrat]

Thanks a lot for tips. Very useful.

Still working on a box so I can paint in garage area. Not yet ready to paint.

Question, do I need a clear coat? I just bought and matched Boeing brown 2 color, 2 part car paint.

Thanks a lot,

Denis

[phil744]

Hey Denis, you only need to put a clear coat on there if you use cheap nasty paint on there, and it has an effect on the final finish, a good quality matt PPG 2 pack paint will be durable enough

Phil

[kondrat]

Thanks Phil!

[hexpope]

Good work on the T7 pit Kondrat!

[NeoMorph]

Phil, I've seriously got a case of chicken and egg time....

OK, so my Throttle Quadrant top is made of metal plates that have been painted and have grading on top. Now if the metal was flat it would be easy to paint and add the gradings on top... being bent in an arc then how are the engravings done (not done any machine shop stuff for 35+ years). If you paint before you bend you get the the paint to crack. Try to engrave after the piece is bent and it's really going to be tough.



I was going to go with bent perspex but now I'm going back to metal again for sturdiness.

Someone will probably say they use a special engraving machine... There really should be a part of the site that does tricks and tips for various sim builds like Phils painting tips above. Simple for the expert but a black science for even the enthusiastic hobbyist.

[jackpilot]

Plastic or metal : if done slowly and gently paint is not an issue and engraving is too small to be elongated by the bending.
http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=640.msg5060#msg5060

[phil744]

Hey Neo,

Tell you now i could not make an ATR throttle, that looks a beast.

However i feel you may of overlooked something, the ATR TQ is not round, its more of an aerofoil shape, curved between mat thrust and idle then tapers off straight down to the ped you will find the 742, 744, 76, 77, 78 and A300/A310 throttles are all the same

So with that in mind it makes the job a little simpler, basically look at the idle gate/ TO config test lightplate at the rear of the TQ, its not curved, its perfectly flat, so thats 1/4 of the problem gone allready

now lets look at the remining lightplate that cover the throttle axis, its devided up into 3 main strips (4 if you include that little bit on the flaps lightplate)

Small long strip lightplates are so much easyer to work with than one lare piece, so make your lightplates from 3mm acrylic and strips like it is on the actual aircraft.

Just thinking out aloud here but if i was to attack that i would do the entire top profile out of 1 sheet of aluminium, this gives the strength and feel back into itm then bolt the thin plastic lightplate strips over the top. also means you can be rough when bending the aluminium as its going to get covered anyway so hides any abuse.

Beacuse the lightplates are now thin strips i wont be supprised if you could get away without actually heating them up to get them to bend, try first with un painted acrylic strip, if you do need to heat them a little then you can use jack method whilts the plates are still screwed to the TQ and let them drape themselves over the TQ profile

food for thought perhaps?

[NeoMorph]

The good thing is the TQ is made up of smaller plates which means if I mess up one part it doesn't mess up the whole cover. I'm just waiting for my friend to finish welding the mounts on the back of the throttles (I'm no welder) and add the little indicator bits on both the throttles and condition levers. Until I get them back I'm stuck with working on the next phase. The cover is something I've been thinking about for a while now.

Regarding the teardrop shape, it's a perfect arc over the top as otherwise the indicator marks on the throttle and condition levers would either jam or move away from the scale. It only flattens out at the end points of the slots which makes it look teardrop shaped. It's something I've been playing with on and off all summer with scale models made out of spare parts I had hanging around. It's that scale that is what is doing my head in the most.