My SST project - help and advise needed..

[mdavenport]

Hi,

I am after some advise please around selecting components for my sim project.

My goal is to get a 737 Single Seat Trainer in the short-med term and then longer term work towards an overhead fwd+aft and pedestal.

At the moment I am still flying the desk but have the following setup:-

* FDS MX MCP+EFIS
* FDS MX CDU
* Simworld CDU Bay + Lower EICAS
* Jetmax TQ
* Simujabs 737 Yoke
* P3D
* Prosim737
* 2 x PC's (1 x P3D out of the window, 1 x Avionics)
* 3 x 23" monitors for "Out of the window" view
* 2 x 19" monitors for Software Instruments i.e. FPD, ND
* 1 x 19" touch screen monitor that is used to display and operate a Prosim Pedestal and Overhead panels - this is located behind my TQ
* oh and a desk!

My next step is to get the SST MIP.  My main options are:-

* Jetmax 737-K
* Simworld SST Plug n Play MIP

I would like to re-use as much as I can of the above investment and are looking for something relatively easy to setup and install, i.e. I don't want to spend endless hours soldering etc (one reason I dismissed Opencockpits SST).  Are there any others vendors I should be considering?  I have looked at Flyengravity but their ICS2 SST needs to plug into a CPFlight MCP Pro.

Any review and opinions you would care to share on the above vendors?

I am also looking at buying a RADIO (one that can do VHF & NAV) and a TRANSPONDER.  I want to be able to mount these in my Simworld CDU Bay - F/O side.  Do you have any recommendations?  I have been looking at the Jetmax ones...

Phase 2 will see the following on my list:-

* Overhead FWD+AFT
* Pedestal
* Boeing 737 seat (Ipeco or Weber)

Based on your experiences can you offer any advice, names of suppliers etc who I should be looking at for the MIP, Overhead, Pedestal and Seat

Hope you can help.

Mod, I wasn't sure if this needed to go in Cockpit Builders section so please feel free to move it.

M

[jackpilot]

Without rating one or the other, my advice is:

Stick with one vendor once you have made your choice.
Mixing modules of various suppliers is a sure source of issues, which can end up costly.
SST from those suppliers are engineered differently and dimensions are always basically scale1:1 except some millimeters off, here and there, which can create havoc when you try to mix parts. Like having to cut into your MIP to allow for a plug or a support mounted differently, and so on....
Think long term, even for parts not yet ordered like an OVH, are they going to be a simple "snap "on or will they need custom made supports or brackets, and will they work with the softwares driving the rest ?
You will save tons of money and aggravation and the cost of each part must not be a deciding factor.

My 2

[mdavenport]

Hmm, very interesting but I wonder if I have already made the mistake as I already have a mixed bag of products between FDS, Simworld and Simujabs.

I guess if I weighted them I would select FDS given that's where most of my investment is.

I have checked with Simworld and they say the MCP + EFIS is compatible.  Also be FDS CDU has slotted in ok into the Simworld CDU bay but I know I can't screw it down as I can't easily (without damaging) get the locking screws out of the FDS CDU bay to replace them with the Simworld screws.

Both FDS/Jetmax and Simworld have their pros and cons.  Simworld is more expensive but whilst the UK are still in the EU (and when Simworld offer 20% discount) they are similarly priced, especially when I add FDS import duty + VAT.. I also need to purchase a lower eicas with FDS but already got it with Simworld.

The next big thing for me is the overhead.  Jetmax offer a nice simple overhead stand where as the Simworld needs a cockpit frame which won't fit in the space I have....

I guess I'm struggling to decide and need to look for advice and feedback on actual vendors/quality etc as I have limited experience in them.  Please PM me if you would be kind enough to offer me some personal feedback.  No opinions will be shared.

I'm happy for anyones 2 cents worth at this point in time...

[jackpilot]

Hi Mark
Do not forget that the VAT is due on all imports even between EU countries.
Yoke, pedals and non motorized TQ being "joysticks" are compatible with everything.

[mdavenport]

I included 21% tax for the EU purchase comparison but with Canada purchase its UK 20% VAT + xx% customs import duty.  I've not be able to get a confirmed % for import duty but I understand it to be around 8%.

Decisions decisions...

[jackpilot]

Also factor in the exchange rate!
But back to square above.... price is one thing to consider but not the only one.

[Joe Lavery]

Just a little amendment,   

When we UK residents buy from an EU country the VAT is the same as if we had bought it in the UK, there is no extra VAT to pay.
So if the seller is quoting a VAT inclusive price that is the price you will pay. I have bought lots of products from France, Germany and Spain and never paid any extra VAT.

Joe.

[mdavenport]

The Exchange rate is hurting me at the minute... since June!

In reference to VAT.  I was under the impressions that I had to pay the 23% tax (I had previously thought it was 21% so its slightly worse than first thought) which was automatically added to the order if I went with Simworld - this was taken from their FAQ:-

"VAT TAX must be paid by all EU customers. Current VAT rate in Poland is 23% that is automatically added to the order on checkout. All other orders are not subject to VAT TAX."

Are you saying I should only be charged 20% at checkout inline with the UK VAT rate?

[jackpilot]

A) When you order an item from an EU country, that EU country VAT rate is applicable. Hence 23% not 20%.

B) If you order an item from a non-EU country, the vendor does not charge any VAT (since it is an export) and you end up paying YOUR VAT (20%) at your end.

Custom duties are only applicable in the B) scenario and vary according to originating country, nature of the item, and should be checked with UK customs.
Usually modest.

Exchange rate is very favorable 100 CAD= 60 GBP = 70 Euros

This being said it is entirely your decision, and no one can take it for you.
Needs and expectations vary with each build and my only recommendation is
to choose a course and stick with it, hardware and software.

[fsaviator]

You've got a plan.  Just work it all the way through.

As Jack said, stick to as few vendors as possible.  Look at interfacing as well.  Your FDS stuff has one interface while the simworld stuff has another.  I don't see anything that requires a simworld interface right now so why add that to the mix down the road if the prices are as comparable as they are?

I'd go with the Jetmax as you're ready to go with FDS MCP, EFIS and CDU.  In fact, I would look at selling off the Simworld CDU bay at this point and getting the full Jetmax setup.  On that, have you looked at sourcing the Jetmax from Klemens, at Flightsimtech in Berlin?

I'm not a cheerleader for FDS but I have learned the hard (and expensive) way.  My sim has four or five vendors in it, but I have replaced more and more with one vendor as I struggle make interfaces play well together through OS and Sim upgrades.

That's just my two cents