Visit to Scott's 737NG Sim

[sagrada737]

I recently had an opportunity to visit Scott at his home to see and experience his awesome 737NG simulator.  I had a great time and it was a real treat to be able to fly and experience his full-scale 737NG simulator.  Thanks again Scott for the hospitality!

I was greatly impressed by the attention to detail on Scott's simulator, and the great amount of effort put into his project.  This was an especially important visit for me, as I am just beginning to work on my full-scale 737NG home cockpit.  It was interesting to see the differences between FSX and XPlane10, and especially to feel the immersion with Scott's new 3-monitor display setup, which I am guessing will be a five monitor setup fairly soon.  One thing I noticed almost immediately in flying his simulator, was the overwhelming sense of motion with the large outside displays, and the lack of visual attention the mind pays to the break in the screen due to bezel overlap.  This confirmed for me the direction I will go with my own display system, and I will follow Scott's lead in this area by using a similar 3-TV Monitor display, which in my case will be driven by a TH2G.

It was also a treat to have the chance to meet John and Karen, who stopped by to pick up some parts.  Perhaps one day soon I'll have a chance to get up John's way to see his sim setup.

I changed my Avatar to a photo of me in Scott's "Pit" (with Scott's permission).  Hopefully later this year it will change to a photo in my own flight deck.

Thanks again Scott - I had a wonderful time, and it was a great inspiration for my newly started 737NG home cockpit.

Mike

[Maurice]

This confirmed for me the direction I will go with my own display system, and I will follow Scott's lead in this area by using a similar 3-TV Monitor display, which in my case will be driven by a TH2G.

Mike

Hmmm! My gut feeling (and partial experience) is that using the higher resolution of TVs with THG would drive FSX or XP to their knees and would not give a satisfactory performance. Maybe XP is more efficient but everything I have read so far seems to indicate that a single PC may not be enough to drive 3 high definition displays whether you use FSX or XP. I could be wrong but before making a final decision, you may want to investigate further.

Maurice

[blueskydriver]

Hi Mike,

It was awesome to meet you in person and it's also great to hear of another new person jumping right in. You going to visit another CB builder first, is the best suggestion I like to give, as it really puts things into perspective right away.

By seeing the 3 LCD screen setup you don't have to repeat the steps that some of us have taken to find the right visuals we're all looking for. Scott has certainly set new levels in this hobby by first using projectors and then switching to large format LCD screens. He has shown that even though projectors do look good in the "depth of field" area, LCD screens do provide better clarity even though both have pros vs cons. Albeit, it is just an equal matter of a builders preference in the end. Yet, the LCD screens win hands down when space is limited.

Still, you're are very welcome to come visit us anytime to see the projector side of things; thereby, by seeing both, you will have a baseline reference point to apply to your sim build. Now, I must admit that my sim is not 100% like Scott's is, but it is coming along rather nicely for a real shell build. I think Scott mentioned this before, but I went that direction for a couple reasons. One, I started building mine long before the FDS shell kits were available, so like some of the other guys, we searched for the real shells to use over trying to design and build our own wood shells. Even though wood kits were being made at FDS at the time (Scott's was that type previously), I like the other guys, went for the real shell because of the timing; we just happen to be at the right place at the right time and we (more so me) were not all that great at wood working. So, saving the time to learn, we went for the real ones. Once I found mine I was very happy with it.

Second, because of fading star power and timing, I got mine in a funny sort of way. Not sure if many people remember, but my shell was a TV star at one time. On a home builders show called "While You Were Out", it was about a spouse of a Jet Blue Pilot who wanted to have a family and friends "themed" backyard area for get togethers. So, her and the producers of the show purchased the shell from an Arizona boneyard, had it trucked to her house, and then they did the backyard theme build based on a lonely pilot/plane crash survivor, who used the shell for a shelter, all the while, the cameras rolled to capture the show. Well, as I mentioned, fading star power or a few years after the show, the pilot and spouse relocated and needed to get the shell removed from the property. Cueing me, I moved it from their place to mine. Anyhow, be it real, wood or FDS shell kits, either one will certainly do, but it again is just preference and ones skills.

Finally, please post more about your sim and pictures are always a great bonus for us CB builders; nothing says builder like pictures do... Also, if you have questions or need detailed help, just send me a PM. Or, I am not sure if I gave you our phone number, but I will PM it too you and you can certianly call me.

Best Regards,

John

[jskibo]

Scott's sim is great and he does pay careful attention to detail!

Not sure why you would want to inject a TH2Go into a new build.....

They were fine before 500 and 600 series Nvidia cards came out, but now they are a $200+ waste of money.

GTX670 and 680 as well as SLI'd 200 series and above can all do 2D surround very easy if you're dong a single visual PC setup, and when you get tired of 18-30 FPS and go multi system the TH2G becomes truly useless.

As for single PC  performance at 5760 x 1080 (actually 5825 x 1080 for bezel correction), I run an older i7-920 at 3.5GHz, 12gb ram, GTX680.  I used Rex textures, Ultimate terrain and Mytraffic at 20% commercial, zero GA.

At stock airports I get 14-18 on ground and up to my FPS lock at 6000'
At FSDT airports it can go as low as 6 on ground, but normally hovers at 11, again up to my 30 limiter one above 6000'

Will have results of my i5-3570 build in a week or so, then plan on trying two PC visuals, fwd left on one PC, right on the other.  Eventually, once I get the last i5-3570 CPU I need to fill in the last machine, I will move to three PC

[Maurice]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the ONLY way to have decent fluid simulation with full wraparound under MOST if not all conditions including heavy weather, lots of traffic, detailed airports and scenery etc... is to go with multiple PCs. And I even wonder if multiple current generation PCs would achieve that under these conditions.

Sorry but anybody who believes otherwise is just kidding himself  . Lower your expectations though and you can have satisfactory results even with one PC and still enjoy flying if you put less importance on the visuals and more on the actual flying experience, which is what drew me to this hobby in the first place.

Don't get me wrong here... a setup like the one from Scott is amazing but if you can't justify it for any reason, then don't beat yourself up and go for what you can manage; it will still be worth it IF flying was your primary goal as opposed to seeing beautiful scenery with lots of sharp details.  .

Maurice

[XOrionFE]

I have to say Maurice I agree with you 100 percent.   When I had my TH2GO and 1 computer with FSX I was flying.....

6 months later and a lot of headache and learning curve and I am finally getting close to being back to that point.     It is nice to fly in FSX with Wideview and see framerates north of 40-50 on average even at KSFO in heavy scenery or the same in X-Plane but does come at a price and sometimes simple is better.     No doubt.

Scott

[sagrada737]

Hi Guys,

Lots of nice comments and good advice/perspective.  From my vantage point, I had to do some serious consideration before going down the road to build a full-scale 737NG simulator (home cockpit).

Not being a 737 driver, I knew that there would be a heavy learning curve to sort out operational procedures to fly this bird correctly.  I think everyone here would agree, that the 737NG, although quite capable of joy-riding, is a serious flight deck, where proper attention to procedural protocol is the rule of the day.  Instrument flying and cockpit management has always been an aspect of flying that I enjoyed, so I figured that this would be double the fun in a 737NG setup for my simulator project.

All that coupled with the challenge of building some of the simulator myself is the cat's meow.  We live in an age where   we have wonderful opportunities to integrate technology into our project, and the 737NG simulator is no exception with its systems integration of hardware/software disciplines - not to mention that it flies (so to speak) when done correctly.

It's the "correctly" part of the equation that is highly subjective.  Some folks are fixed on terrorizing the skies in a jumbo jet, while others are glued to serious flight deck management - and everything in between.  In my case, the decision to go with TV monitors (like Scott's setup) is one of simple priorities.  TV are easy to buy locally, easy to install/setup, works nicely with my existing TH2G at its current Desktop of 5040 x 1050 (using 27" monitors) with FSX running basic scenery (MegaScenery X and Earth 2.0).  Yes, the quality is sub-par on the left/right screens, but I hardly notice (or care) when I am focused on flight deck management.  Hence, I think I will be happy with the same setup using larger HD TVs with the TH2G.

There may come a time when I will certainly expand my horizons to explore more realism on the display/scenery side of the simulator experience, but for the next year or so, I think I will be very happy to get through the learning curve flying the 737NG correctly and thoroughly understand all of the systems and complex operations of the 737.  When I get about 80% down that road, I will start to reconsider a secondary phase to my home cockpit project.  Who knows...  By that time, if I decide to use newer technology for the sim/display systems, I may donate the TVs to my church and go with projection.

I appreciate the fellowship found on this Forum.  Nice bunch of guys (and gals - Karen).  Also, thanks for the invite John.  I hope to be able to get back up that way sometime in the near future, as I want to visit CP and Maurice, as well as FDS.  Of course, any of you folks are welcome down here in sunny New Mexico.

Mike

[fsaviator]

Well, at the risk of hijacking this thread, and to help some make a decision....,
....My take away is that regardless of system specs, tweaks, and mods, in terms of FPS, unwarped on a TH2Go is faster than warped, and both are faster than using multiple cards and heads [on one machine].  The numbers don't lie.

I moved the full post to http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=3131.msg24342;topicseen#new