Spoilers (Speed Brakes) Function/Operation using FSUIPC in FSX

[sagrada737]

For many "old timers" on this forum, the issues related to using and implementing Offsets within FSUIPC to accomplish various functions in FSX is easy.   But for newbies to sim building like me, it is an uphill battle to sort out the myriad details of using Offsets within FSUIPC.  That said, we are all fortunate that FSUIPC exists (thanks Pete!), but it still requires climbing the learning curve.  Like everyone else...  I'm having fun (I tell myself) figuring out the use of Offsets as might be applied to my 737NG Sim Project.  This process tends to be "Hit and Miss" and I celebrate each time when something actually does what its suppose to    Such is the learning process...

I should also state that I am going to be using the FDS JetMax Throttle Quadrant for my 737NG home cockpit.  If you haven't checked it out, the JetMax TQ is a nice piece of engineering.  Hats off to the guys at FDS!  This TQ is a quality, low-cost solution for those folks that don't want to "retro" the real thing, or build their own TQ.   In any case, even though I am buying an off-the-shelf solution, I still want to understand how my sim works, hence my interest and experimenting with TQ functions with OFFsets and FSUIPC.

Back to the thread...  I wanted to post a comment on the Spoiler functions, and an anomaly I see within FSX that some may not be aware of when trying to set up and test your Spoiler (Speed Brakes).   

The anomaly I have noticed is:  When setting up your Offsets within FSUIPC, and testing the Spoiler functions when the aircraft is on the ground, the Spoilers will show in FSX, going to FULL UP position.  It is only when you are in-flight, that you are able to actually see the Spoilers incrementally deploy - as they should - up to the Flight Detent position (which I understand is 35 degrees, and is the max Spoiler deployment in-flight for the 737). 

If you are not using an actual 737 TQ, or one modeled after the real TQ, with its internal hardware inner-locks to prevent Spoiler deployment beyond the Flight Detent position in-flight, it is possible to move to FULL Spoiler deployment if the Spoiler handle is pulled all the way back to its full deployment position, which is not possible in the real 737.

Full Spoiler deployment is only allowed and actuated, when the Spoilers are in the "ARM" position range, Throttle in flight idle position, and actuated when the landing gear actually touches down (Right Wheel compressed and wheels turning at a given speed - although I don't think this combination is modeled in Sim-Avionics).

Someone correct me if I am wrong on the above, as I am in the learning mode with all of this.  Also, I am guessing that with the various TQ solutions on the market, not to mention retro-fitting a real 737TQ for sim use, that there are likewise various approaches to accomplishing (simulating) all the TQ funcitons to a "desired level of realism" with the flight model one is using.  In this regard, unless one is going for the ultimate realism for their full-scale sim project, I guess the finite detail doesn't matter that much. 

To me, this brings up the question as to what might be considered a realistic baseline level of TQ functionality to have in a 737NG home cockpit?  Perhaps some would be willing to comment on this.

Mike

[jackpilot]

see Mark's comment
http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4851

[sagrada737]

Hello Jack,

Thanks for the comment, and link.

Any other thoughts as to what is correct Spoiler operation?  For example, is it correct in a real 737NG, that with the Spoilers ARM'd, and with the Spoilers deployed on final approach to landing somewhere in the allowable range up to Flight Detent, that the Spoilers will still fully deploy upon landing?  or, does the Spoiler handle absolutely need to be in the ARM position on the TQ in order for auto-deployment to work?

If anyone has real-world experience on the full range of Spoiler (Speed Brakes) operation in a real 737NG, I would appreciate feedback on this topic.  Thanks.

Mike

[fsaviator]

Hello Jack,

Thanks for the comment, and link.

Any other thoughts as to what is correct Spoiler operation?  For example, is it correct in a real 737NG, that with the Spoilers ARM'd, and with the Spoilers deployed on final approach to landing somewhere in the allowable range up to Flight Detent, that the Spoilers will still fully deploy upon landing?  or, does the Spoiler handle absolutely need to be in the ARM position on the TQ in order for auto-deployment to work?

If anyone has real-world experience on the full range of Spoiler (Speed Brakes) operation in a real 737NG, I would appreciate feedback on this topic.  Thanks.

Mike

Mike, I may be off here, but it is my understanding that the spoilers function as so:

If you ARM the spoilers prior to touchdown, then the spoiler will fully activate when the power is at idle, and weight is applied to the wheels.  The spoiler will remain in the up position until power is applied, at which point the spoiler will stow itself.

Alternately, if the spoiler is NOT armed, it will activate when the reversers are activated.

My TQ models all these functions.  Now, since I have not set anything in FSUIPC or Prosim in regards to the spoilers, and I am not running a script for Prosim, I have to assume that all these functions are set in SIOC, as that is the only thing my TQ runs with the exception of the joystick card that handles the horn cutout and buttons.

Warren

[sagrada737]

Hello Warren,

Thanks for the detailed comments - much appreciated.  I will do some testing to see if Sim-Avionics functions the same way when the Spoiler is NOT armed and Reversers are activated. 

Regards,
Mike

[Sean]

Hi Mike

Warren's explanation is pretty much as it is. See section 9.20 of the FCOM (i've pasted the relevant pages here if you don't have one handy).

Sean

[Edit] Removed attachments at the Request of Boeing Corporate. Please do not post Copyrighted materials. Thanks.

[fsaviator]

Duuuuhhhh....  never thought to look in the FCOM.  I'm sure glad I have 15 copies of various models, and took the time to print one completely out

No problem Mike.  The main point was that I would think that even if FSX doesn't support all the functions, it is possible to get all the functions.  Truthfully, since my recent rebuild, my spoilers are acting up, and my trim is off which tells me I have some motor or another backwards.  I'm hoping to get a chance to have Oral take a look this week.  I'll try to remember to ask him how the spoilers are modeled.

Warren

[sagrada737]

Thanks Warren, Sean...   That information is much appreciated. 

Best of luck Warren getting your Spoilers functions working again.

Mike

[XOrionFE]

Mike, if you got the PMDG Captains documentation set one of the manuals is the FCOM so will come in handy!

I hope to get mine ironed out soon.   I didnt have better luck last night after I got off the phone with you with the servos but still something not right.  I may just order an extra card.

Scott