FSX + WidevieW 210 deg. FOV, 3 x 87" flat screen projector setup - Demo Video's

[sluyt050]

I promised to shoot some demo video's from my generic cockpit setup. Well here they are.

This topic is mainly for judging flat screens versus a curved screen, particularly to watch the "corner effects" and to get an overall impression. Sorry for the colored interference bands and sometimes loss of focus: I used my iPad 4. A full HD camera would have done better I think.

The first video gives an overall impression from far behind the eye point. Draw back is a sort of fish eye effect particularly visible when moving sideways.
The second one is taken right at the eye point and obviously me not being there, so I had to operate the rudder pedals by hand. Bit ugly.
The last video was shot hand held by my son instead of using a tripod, like the first two, and me flying.

Here are the videos on youTube:

FSX 210 deg. FOV projector setup - camera 4 m behind eye point - Taxiing
FSX 210 deg. FOV projector setup - camera at eye point - Taxiing
FSX 210 deg. FOV projector setup - camera near eye point - Takeoff

Although explained in previous topics, here are details of my setup just for the sake of completeness:

As the drawing shows, I use 3 flat screens each having a diagonal of 87". Screen width ~186 cm and Radius ~163 cm (so a bit smaller than stated). The largest width between the side screens = 314 cm (10.3 feet), so large enough to eventually house a 737 cockpit shell. The image height is ~117 cm. I used standard MDF plate of 12 mm thick and 122 cm (4 feet) high. The plates are reinforced on the backside to keep them flat. The image/screen center (=eye point height) is ~145 cm above the floor and 119 cm above the flight deck. Room height = 252 cm (~8.3 feet).

Projectors: 3 x BenQ MW 851UST (1280 x 800 p, throw Ratio = 0.36). Due to this low value the projectors are quite close to the screen and well mutually spaced. Since I found exact mechanical alignment of the projectors quite difficult (although a laser device was used), I use warping software from Fly Elise (Immersive Display Lite 2) for fine tuning and that went very easy. Because the corrections needed are minimal (compared to a curved screen) the loss of image resolution is hardly noticeable.

Furthermore, I use FSX + WidevieW installed on 1 server PC for flying and 2D panels, and 3 client PC's exclusively used for scenery. I had to choose for this setup to maintain frame rates of 30 fps under all conditions (overall resolution = 3840 x 800 pixels, FSX sliders to the right except for Autogen and traffic, AS2012 1024x1024 clouds, PMDG 737-800NGX, heavy add-on scenery and airports). A second important reason to go for a 4 machine setup is OOM (out of memory) errors which regularly occurred in the past after 15 to 30 min. flying using 1 PC and 1+3 active views. I refer to my former 3 x 27" monitor setup. Disadvantage is that I do not have my AS2012 live weather anymore. HiFi confirmed, however, that they are working on a multi scenery-PC solution  .

Server PC: Intel Core i7 2600k at 4.5 to 4.7 GHz + Nvidia Geforce 680 (could be a lighter one too).
Client PC's: Intel Core i5 3570k at 4.3 to 4.5 GHz + Nvidia Geforce 660 (MSI 660TF).

Regards,
Edward

[XOrionFE]

Bravo Edward!   That looks absolutely fantastic and really clear at least from this vantage point.   Removing the warping seems to make a lot of difference.   It looks like you have a winner!

Glad to see you finally did this as I know many we're waiting to see how it would turn out.   If I still had projectors I would definitely do this I think.  How is your sense of depth affected by not going onto a curve?   Do you feel like you lose anything not having the extra depth in the middle?   Again, fantastic.  Also really smooth with the Wideview setup.   

Nice work!

Scott

[sluyt050]

Bravo Edward!   That looks absolutely fantastic and really clear at least from this vantage point.   Removing the warping seems to make a lot of difference.   It looks like you have a winner!

Glad to see you finally did this as I know many we're waiting to see how it would turn out.   If I still had projectors I would definitely do this I think.  How is your sense of depth affected by not going onto a curve?   Do you feel like you lose anything not having the extra depth in the middle?   Again, fantastic.  Also really smooth with the Wideview setup.   

Nice work!

Scott

Thanks Scott!
I am really glad that it worked out so well. Although I still miss the clarity and sharpness of my 27" monitors the immersion experience is overwhelming.
I cannot say when looking straight ahead I notice a lack of sense of depth. As you can see for yourself from the 2nd and 3th video, it is hard to see the difference between curved and flat. Because the image is consistently spanned over the 3 screens when being in the eye point, the space is created in your head. At least that's my explanation. Only when I look to the top and bottom screen borders during flying I realize that the screens are flat. Once I did some stunt flying in Las Vegas (add-on) at night at low altitude and got the feeling that I was inside a flying box and after some time I even got dizzy.

If I should go for the 737 (FDS) shell, I think the difference between curved and flat will be even harder noticeable because the upper and lower edges of the screen are masked. Anyway you already got that experience.

[tennyson]

I'd also like to say, Thanx, Edward.

I'm in the planning stages for my visuals and I was interested in your set-up from previous posts.

Having seen the video's now, i am sure that your set-up is not for me.
In comparison to other curved screen video's I've seen, I like the curved screen more, even if it takes nore time and effort to achieve.

That's what is great about forums. You get to make some decisions based on other people's pioneering.

Well done, Edward,



Frank Cooper

[Maurice]

Great job Edward. I'm quite sure that once your view is limited by the windows, you won't know the difference between flat & curved screen. And if you do, just think about the extra clarity you gained with flat screens. Well worth it in my opinion.

Just out of curiosity, I browsed through the Wideview manual a few weeks ago and at that time I thought I would rather have a root canal without anasthetic than set up a Wideview system. How did you find the experience?

Maurice

[sluyt050]

Just out of curiosity, I browsed through the Wideview manual a few weeks ago and at that time I thought I would rather have a root canal without anasthetic than set up a Wideview system. How did you find the experience?

Maurice

I must admit half a year ago I had the same thoughts about using Wideview as you. I believed that with one powerful machine (e.g. Intel haswell) and P3D 2.0 () low frame rates should not be a problem anymore. However, gradually I changed my mind. Lets assume Haswell could do maximum 10% faster processing and P3D 2.0 will add another 20% performance gain, then I would end up with max. 32% gain. With 4 views on one machine my frame rate often dropped to 10-15 at heavy airports and clouds. So with my faster PC and software my frame rate would become only 13-20 fps. Still not the 30 fps I aim for. Adding the OOM errors and my wish (for the future) to go to full HD, I realized the only solution was building more PC's and switching to Wideview.

Actually setting up a Wideview configuration was not so hard despite the elaborate manual. Very important is that you have to use 3 dedicated scenery clients (max. 1 view per client) and 1 (flying only) server to get optimum results. See my attached Wideview settings. Zoom factor for the clients (Cockpit View) I get from FSX WindowMaker (in my case 0.4312 for 210 deg. FOV). For the (unavoidable) server view you can use a zoom factor of 192-255 and FSX scenery sliders to the left of course. Furthermore, I started to build one client PC and completely installed all the necessary software and tweaks. Then I twice cloned the SSD for the two other machines (Acronis True Image Home). For that machines you only have to change the Win 7 key, the IP address and the Computer Name. Last but not least you have to properly set network sharing on all the machines and configure Wideview. To prevent alignment problems I use identical AIRCRAFT.CFG files on all 4 PC's. The PANEL.CFG on the clients can be empty. Since I still use the PMDG 738NGX I have no landing lights on the clients. With the Jetstream model it should be no problem however.

Disadvantage of the Wideview setup is that you have to start and stop (and maintain!) 4 PC's. Normally, I first start FSX on the server in its default pre-saved configuration. Then I use a program "Remote Computer Manager" (http://www.mylanviewer.com/remote-computer.html) on the server to simultaneously start the Immersive Display Lite 2 warp loader on the clients, which automatically starts FSX, é voilá! Power down of the clients can be done from within Wideview on the server or using the Remote Computer Manager that can also do a restart if you wish. Maintenance of the server and clients I do with TeamViewer (free) on my office machine and enjoying a glass of wine. It is handy to have one spare mouse and keyboard for client maintenance in case you have to enter the BIOS for instance.

My client PC specification is:
CPU: Intel Core i5 3570K (4.3-4.5 MHz dependent on max. temperature - it can vary slightly per CPU. I try to keep it max. 65 deg.C.)
Cooler: Scythe Mugen 3 PC Games Hardware Edition
Mobo: Asus P8Z77-M
Memory: 8 GB Corsair Vengeance CMZ8GX3M2A1600C8
Video card: MSI N660 TF 2GD5/OC
Case: Fractal Design ARC MINI
PSU: Be Quiet! Straight Power E9 450W
SSD: Crucial m4 SSD 2.5" 256GB (for me it's large enough - alternatively you can use a second 120 GB SSD for the OS)
OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 OEM

Okay, you can still do the root canal thing without anesthetic  if you are overwhelmed by my enthusiasm.

[fordgt40]

Edward

Many thanks for the visuals and wideview setup. I am approaching decision time on my visuals and your info will help me greatly.

Regards

David

[Maurice]

Thank you Edward, you truly confirmed my suspicions. For a fleeting moment, I had considered Wideview but with my fragile mental state these days, that would be the final nail in my sim's coffin for sure. Stutters & other issues do not seem as bad now as reading the 76 page Wideview manual and dealing with 3 more PCs in addition to the 8 PCs I have now. 

Off to my dentist now

Maurice

[sluyt050]

Maurice, I could have anticipated your reaction. Still glad that you gave me the opportunity to share my experience.

Bly me, 8 computers even without Wideview! I truly hope that they are not all for flying......there would be no room left for passengers luggage  .

[Maurice]

Bly me, 8 computers even without Wideview! I truly hope that they are not all for flying......there would be no room left for passengers luggage  .

Nope, they are the remnants of the ones I used with Project Magenta. I could simplify things now with my SimA setup and go down to 3 or 4 PCs, but these dinosaur PCs still do the work fine so why mess with them? Sometimes (not always) I have enough sense to leave good enough alone 

Maurice

[brianwilliamson]

Maurice, do not give up ! I have been at the same stage of throwing everything out the hangar door. I was using 7 computers and then discovered with Magenta ( which has always been a problem ) that you could put all the programs on one computer except for the second MCDU.
I am now down to 3 computers and this has made a HUGE difference.

Edward, thank you so much for all your information, as I think I will keep to my flat screen setup, as I have a full cockpit which of course hides the top and bottom of the screens, so should give a very realistic view as your video shows.

Great stuff............regards, Brian W.