New Cockpit Build

[Andrew 737]

Hi Everyone

I joined the forum yesterday and introduced myself here:

http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=3400.0

I have started this thread (continuation of my intro thread) here so as to keep it in a place where I hope it will help others.

Background:

I discovered FSX in 2010 and installed it into a laptop, done some googling, bought some saitek stuff, went to PC world and before I knew it I was hooked, addicted, obsessed and erm... not in 'her indoors' best books 

Then I did some more Googling... and here we are 

Current state:

I have had the pleasure of a seriously amatuer cockpit using 1 60inch screen, project Magenta and various hardware - whilst it has been great fun I really want to go to the next level and have a cockpit with 180 degree (or similar) curved visuals. below are some photos of my current equipment.

[Andrew 737]

Picture 1 -  Intend to use this set-up to learn how to make a 3 window configuration (with the help of the 'Forum Guru's'). Ken has been really kind with his time and has steered me in the right direction.

The reason i want to use this setup is because the resolution of the monitors is the closest to the projector resolution I want to use. I fear if I buy high definition projectors I will not get the performance needed for smooth flight.

Picture 2 - I have used this to test Wideview and the GTX Titan - I dont feel (at present) this is the direction I want to take.

Picture 3 - I7 2600k @ 4.8ghz and GTX 580 Cards

Picture 4 - Core duo PC's (above) for Project Magenta Software & 2 x I7 980x @ 3.3ghz (Below) PM GC Software

Picture 5 & 6 - Sim Pit Hardware

Picture 7 - Went off on a tangent made a Cessna on motion; motion was C**P so turned it into a racing car; The Kids love it!

I am going to buy a shell & Liners (Probably FDS) but i need to get my visuals working first.

Space was of a premium but that will be ok by Jan 14 as I am building a new house so will have a decent room to get it all in.

So thats me and my project - I hope it gives an Idea of what I am trying to acheive and I thank everyone in advance for any help/advice they may wish to give

[Andrew 737]

Yes, the 'dummy guide' I wrote. The hidden window will just be a view pointing to the sky with a zoom factor of 512. So if you were to close all 3 visible windows, you would then see a blank light blue window assuming clear daytime weather. At night, the view would just be a black screen.
It will all make sense once you get it going.

Maurice

Hi Again Maurice

I hate to admit it but I am RANK amatuer!

It took me two hours to work out how to get the unseen full screen view pointing up! I assumed I have to comment (//) out the interior model of the VC and zoom into the OVHD panel to 512 zoom then save the flight like this?

With regards to window maker it did make some good windows - for the first time ever I had about 180 view although it needed tweaking - small but welcome progress!

Is there an instruction manual for window maker anywhere?

There are things in there I don't understand - do I fill in both 2d & VC camera ID's?

I have lots of questions but a user guide for window maker would be a good first start - if anyone knows of it PLEASE can you point me to it?

As ever much appreciation

[Maurice]

Andrew,

You may have read my guide 3 times but reading it is not enough...you have to actually do exactly what I wrote and everything will fall into place.

There is no need for a Windows Maker manual. I wrote down all the instructions you will need in my guide. Once it gives you the values you need, you can get rid of it and as I mentioned in my guide, this just puts you in the ballpark and you then have to adjust the zoom factor.

As far as the hidden window is concerned, it is always the first window and if you look at the example of my setup in the guide, it shows the 512 zoom factor in the first window as shown below. This has nothing to do with the overhead that you mentioned and you can use exactly what you see below except for the Guid (it might even be the same)

[Window.1]
Order=3
Active=True
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=4, 4, 1, 1
CurrentCamera={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}

[Camera.1.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=512
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=-90, 0, 0

I'm not sure how to make this any clearer. Is there a particular step in my guide that you found confusing or that did not give you the results you expected?

I think the only thing I missed in the guide was the modification you need to do in the model.cfg for the particular aircraft you want to use. This gets rid of the virtual cockpit and you will just see the outside world and not the interior of the cockpit.

[models]
normal=B737_800
//interior=B737_800_interior

Can you post the views that you ended up with in Windows Maker?
They should look roughly like the example I showed. Once you have these views settings and you replace the existing view settings in any saved flight .FLT file, you can start that flight by just double-clicking on the .flt file or start FSX and load the .flt file.

Don't try to over analyze this. Just follow the guide exactly and once you get something that looks close,  then it will be easier to understand what is happening. Believe me, this is not rocket science . I too went through hell when I configured the views because I had no idea about what was going on but once I had them, it all made sense and that's why I wrote this guide

Anyway, post your views settings as calculated by Windows Maker and I'll check them to see if they look ok.

Maurice

[Andrew 737]

Hi Maurice

I will do exactly as you say again tommorow; where I find in the instruction an uncertainty I will make a note and check it with you.

In the window maker the camera ID's are already in - a 2d one and the VC one - they seem to be what my original .flt file is showing; should I leave 'both' guid's in or one or the other?

Your guide says add the camera 1 I'd?

If this is not clear I will take more time to explain again when I'm in front of the PC

Sincerely

Andrew

[iwik]

Hi Andrew,
This is the original thread, it may help a little if you havent seen it.

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/cockpit-outside-visualization/23199-windowmaker-tool-updated.html

Les

[Andrew 737]

Hi Andrew,
This is the original thread, it may help a little if you havent seen it.

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/cockpit-outside-visualization/23199-windowmaker-tool-updated.html

Les

Hi Les

I will have a read through now and spend the day trying again

I don't think I'm too far off

Thanks

[fordgt40]

For the benefit of EnglishRebel here is the link to Maurice`s Dummy Guide.

http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=1340.0

[Andrew 737]

Andrew,

You may have read my guide 3 times but reading it is not enough...you have to actually do exactly what I wrote and everything will fall into place.

There is no need for a Windows Maker manual. I wrote down all the instructions you will need in my guide. Once it gives you the values you need, you can get rid of it and as I mentioned in my guide, this just puts you in the ballpark and you then have to adjust the zoom factor.

As far as the hidden window is concerned, it is always the first window and if you look at the example of my setup in the guide, it shows the 512 zoom factor in the first window as shown below. This has nothing to do with the overhead that you mentioned and you can use exactly what you see below except for the Guid (it might even be the same)

[Window.1]
Order=3
Active=True
Undocked=False
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=4, 4, 1, 1
CurrentCamera={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}

[Camera.1.1]
Guid={B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}
Zoom=512
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=-90, 0, 0

I'm not sure how to make this any clearer. Is there a particular step in my guide that you found confusing or that did not give you the results you expected?

I think the only thing I missed in the guide was the modification you need to do in the model.cfg for the particular aircraft you want to use. This gets rid of the virtual cockpit and you will just see the outside world and not the interior of the cockpit.

[models]
normal=B737_800
//interior=B737_800_interior

Can you post the views that you ended up with in Windows Maker?
They should look roughly like the example I showed. Once you have these views settings and you replace the existing view settings in any saved flight .FLT file, you can start that flight by just double-clicking on the .flt file or start FSX and load the .flt file.

Don't try to over analyze this. Just follow the guide exactly and once you get something that looks close,  then it will be easier to understand what is happening. Believe me, this is not rocket science . I too went through hell when I configured the views because I had no idea about what was going on but once I had them, it all made sense and that's why I wrote this guide

Anyway, post your views settings as calculated by Windows Maker and I'll check them to see if they look ok.

Maurice

Hi Maurice

I have spent today working on this and I have made progress; just to make myself clear I have been testing on my 'test rig' (conveniently!). This comprises 3 23inch monitors with a native res of 1920x1080; they are however connected to an I7 (OC to 4.8ghz) PC via Triple Head 2 Go, so the actual resolution is 3840x1024 - both in the Simulator and in windows as the recommended Resolution. I did not instal Matrox software so no bezel management or anything done. FSX .CFG has Wideview_Aspect=False As recommended in the Window Maker tool. In the end I made the 3 Window setup exactly as described in that particular thread - the Zoom ended up being 0.42 (i think need to double check!) and rotation 75, -75 & 0. My 3 monitors are the middle one in front of me (obviously!) and the other 2 about 65 degree angles off of the middle one.

That all said things looked pretty good - taxi way markings lining up all that sort of thing; a very satisfying experience.

However I do have some questions:

1.) will it ever be possible to get things looking perfect on three flat views such as this is?
I ask as some things look a bit off for example terminal building angles on the outside monitors

2.) I have absolutely no bezel correction set up, so on my windows desktop, when I move my mouse between screens i can see the pointer half on 1 screen and half on the other (all good). HOWEVER in FSX it 'appears' scenery hides behind the bezels does this mean the 'rotation' in the .FLT file is wrong?
I ask as I assume when projected with no bezels there will be some scenery missing.

3.) Performance - my performance is not good enough at the moment but I have (on this particular PC) have loads of add-ons - too many. What kind of add-ons do you guys use if any?

4.) to get the (I think it was very close not too sure if you guys would?) views closely synced like I did, I had to change the angle of my monitors (more angle closer in) how do I get around this once the screen is built and Fixed in position; will aligning everything with the warping software sort all this out?

As ever - sincere gratitude

[Maurice]

Andrew,

I have no experience setting up monitors but I do believe things can be just as good with monitors than with projectors as far as views lining up properly.

Right off the bat though, I can see 2 things wrong with what you did. First, you should be setting WideViewAspect=True regardless of what WindowMaker says.

Second, you really need to make the bezel correction if you are using monitors. I don't understand why you are using a TripleHead unless you are not using your Nvidia card with Nvidia surround. Either way, the bezel correction is required otherwise objects will not transition seamlessly as they move from screen to screen and there should not be any 'scenery missing'

But as I said, I have no real experience with monitors in a surround setup so others may have better suggestions.

Just so I know you are on the right track, can you confirm that if you close the right or left view, all you see is a light blue screen (assuming a day flight)

Maurice

[Andrew 737]

Andrew,

I have no experience setting up monitors but I do believe things can be just as good with monitors than with projectors as far as views lining up properly.

Right off the bat though, I can see 2 things wrong with what you did. First, you should be setting WideViewAspect=True regardless of what WindowMaker says.

Second, you really need to make the bezel correction if you are using monitors. I don't understand why you are using a TripleHead unless you are not using your Nvidia card with Nvidia surround. Either way, the bezel correction is required otherwise objects will not transition seamlessly as they move from screen to screen and there should not be any 'scenery missing'

But as I said, I have no real experience with monitors in a surround setup so others may have better suggestions.

Just so I know you are on the right track, can you confirm that if you close the right or left view, all you see is a light blue screen (assuming a day flight)

Maurice

Hi Maurice

I will change and test with Wideview aspect = True

There is no point in me making bezel correction - I am going to use projectors; this was just a test and I beleive I am 95% there now. I am not using Nvidia surround as I await my GTX 780 so testing with Matrox off the 580 at the mo.

When I close either view I see 'Black' I am using the 3 window setup.

I have just done some more tweaking and things are VERY close indeed - close enough to make me want to buy 3 projectors!

As far as performance goes I turned everything (took a while!) off in scenery library except uk2000 EGLL and FS Global - I turned off GA in UT2; if I set a button to 'reset ut2' before take off my performance is good - nice and smooth by the way I am using GEX too with good Perf.

I hope my zoom does not need to change much when I get projectors as this zoom keeps everything nice and clear with minimal popping.

Maurice YOU ARE A LEGEND MATE I cannot thank you enough.J

Honestly REX clouds passing by me (even on 23inch monitor) is a whole new dimension; so amazing - lord only knows how it will be with projection

I need to build the FSX PC of all FSX PC's next - this I will start as a new post along with what projectors I need

I will make a small video on my phone so you can see (of course if you wouldn't mind) if I have made any fundamental mistakes - after that I am going to buy projectors.

Thank you so so much

Oh one thing, does warping software 'cost' in performance?

[Nat Crea]

Oh one thing, does warping software 'cost' in performance?

Some say it does,  I personally have not seen any with Nthusim or Immersaview WARP.

Nat

[Andrew 737]

Oh one thing, does warping software 'cost' in performance?

Some say it does,  I personally have not seen any with Nthusim or Immersaview WARP.

Nat

Hi Nat

Thank you for confirming this - this is brilliant news

Crickey I cannot beleive how close I am getting - thanks again