Aircraft config and question

[Bob Reed]

Are your oscillations up and down or left and right?

[Patt737]

Hi Bob

Left and right,


Here is my mcp ini

[Project Magenta MCP]
Build#518

[Display]
Title=On
Menu=Off
WindowName=MCP/Enhanced Autopilot by Enrico Schiratti - Build 518
Topmost=Off
FSWindow=Off
Minimized=Off
                              / Starts up minimized
NoMinimize=Off
                              / Doesn't minimize MCP on double-click

[User]
Log=Off
SerialLog=Off
                              / To log the serial communication
CycleMilliSeconds= 30
                              / Speed of the MCP cycle, ideally
                              / set to 50-70 ms
Top= 570
Left=-135
                              / Top/Left coordinates of the MCP
                              / program
Width737= 15375
Height737= 2430
Width747= 15390
Height747= 3180
Width777= 15390
Height777= 3210
                              / Heigth and width of MCP for the
                              / various types
MCPType=737
Intervent737=On
                              / Enables SPD intervention buttons
                              / for the 737
ClassicEFISSel=Off
                              / When set to On, ND modes are selected
                              / with the old method, when set to
                              / Off, 8 modes are selectable...
                              / APP/VOR/MAP/PLN ARC and CTR
DelayMouseClick=On
                              / if mouse reaction is too fast,
                              / you can delay it setting this flag
                              / to On
Font=mcpfont
FontFactor= 1.27

[VNAV]
DescentSpeedControl=Off
                              / when set to off, pilot controls
                              / speed with the throttle

[Aircraft]
[PROJECT MAGENTA 737-800 P3D]
[\\DESKTOP-IPL7F3I\P3D\PREPAR3D V3\SIMOBJECTS\AIRPLANES\PROJECT MAGENTA 738P3D\PMX737-800.AIR]

MinIAS= 0
                              / Minimum selectable airspeed
DefaultIAS= 110
DefaultAltitude= 10000
                              / Default Speed and Altitude select
                              / on startup
AutoHDG=On
AutoVS=Off
                              / Will automatically select the current
                              / HDG and V/S when mode is engaged
MachAltitude= 0
                              / Will automatically switch to MACH/IAS
                              / when this altitude is crossed (e.g.
                              / 23450), 0 disables
AutoCRS=Off
                              / When set to ON, VOR/LOC will *not*
                              / go into intercept ARM mode first
AllowStabTrimOverride=Off
StabTrimDeflect= 6000
                              / Disconnects A/P when Elevator or
                              / Aileron is moved more than the
                              / deflection value (default 6000)
                              / This option needs to be enabled
                              / via bit13 offset 0x50A - monitor
                              / bit13 0x5528 for current setting
StabTrimOverrideActive=Off
                              / This sets the option above to always
                              / be active
Rollout=On
                              / MCP will steer the aircraft during
                              / the rollout phase after an autoland
DisableAdd20Kts=Off
                              / Will not add 20 Kts to speed during
                              / TOGA if set to On
AllowAPOnGround=Off
                              / Allows engaging AP on the ground
NoModeAfterTOGA=Off
                              / Doesn't automatically enable FLCH
                              / after TOGA mode
UsePanel=Off
                              / Set to On if the FS panel or remote
                              / programs are used for MCP interaction
PushButton=Off
                              / Enables the use of the pushbutton
                              / for SPD, ALT and HDG
SpeedProtect=Off
                              / Enables speed protection for A/P
                              / modes
SELCurrentSpeed=On
                              / MCP will take the current speed
                              / when any speed mode is engaged
                              / for the first time
TerrAlt=Off
                              / Alternate Terrain Mode
Flare= 50
                              / Altitude above ground at which
                              / the flare is initiated during autoland
N1ref= 98.3
N1TOref= 98.3
N1GAref= 100
N1CLBref= 90.9
N1CRZref= 94.8
ThrRedAlt= 1500
                              / Defaults used for reference thrust
                              / and thrust reduction altitudes,
                              / only if no CDU detected
MaxROC= 6000
MaxROD= 6000
                              / Maximum rate of climb/descent
ClimbThrustLimiter=On
                              / Limits the climb thrust increase
                              / if the speed increases too much
                              / during FLCH/LVLCHNG climbs
Climb2000Spd=Off
                              / Climbs with SPD mode during FLCH/LVLCHNG
                              / of less than 2400 ft
FlightIdle= 10
ApproachIdle= 15
                              / Min Idle Value for Flight/Approach
                              / (default 10% and 15%)
UsePMAutobrakes=Off
                              / Enables the PM Auto Brake, do not
                              / use the FS autobrake system at
                              / the same time
DisableAutobrakes=Off
                              / Switches Off Autobrakes below 30
                              / Knots, both for PM and FS AutoBrake
                              / System
DisableBrakes=Off
                              / Disables the writing of any brake
                              / valuesof the MCP for Rollout -
                              / this is *not* the Aurobrake System,
                              / if you use PM autobrake, then this
                              / has to be off
BrakeFactor= 0
                              / Brake factor in percent, default
                              / 100%
BrkDiscPark=On
                              / Brakes disconnect Parking Brake
ParkNeedsBrk=Off
                              / Parking Brake Needs Brakes to be
                              / Pressed to engage
TrimMin=-1
TrimCtr= 0
TrimMax= 10
                              / 737 Trim Gauge Min/Ctr/Max
UsepmNavSounds=Off
                              / Will not write Nav Sound flags
                              / to FS Offsets but to Project Magenta
                              / Offsets
StbySets1200=Off
                              / Will set transponder to 1200 when
                              / standby is selected
SwapCRS=Off
                              / Swaps CRS 1 and CRS 2

[Input]
MouseWheel=On
MouseWheelInvert=On
                              / Allows you to 'turn the knobs'
                              / of the MCP using the mouse wheel,
                              / you can also invert the direction
FSBusWriteBack=Off
                              / Will write back Speed and V/S values
                              / to offsets 0x5406 and 0x540C respectively

[Autopilot]
APProjectMagenta=Off
                              / Enables the PM autopilot and overrides
                              / the FS autopilot

APBankFactor= 75
APPitchFactor= 30
                              / Autopilot pitch and bank factors,
                              / the higher the value, the larger
                              / the corrections

DynamicPitch=Off
                              / Enables the PM autopilot and overrides
                              / the FS autopilot
DynamicUseLoHi=Off
DynamicPitchLow= 5
DynamicPitchHigh= 19
                              / Dynamic pitch will use low (close
                              / to 100kts) and high (close to 350
                              / kts) values

DynamicPitchTAS=Off
                              / Currently Disabled

                              / Project Magenta Autopilot for Pitch
                              / and Bank modes

[Hardware Connections]
                              / Enter Comm port the device is connected
                              / to, please do not use this if you
                              / do not have any hardware connected
                              / e.g. enter = 2 for COM2:

                              / Precision Flight Controls MCP hardware
                              / www.flypfc.com
PFCComm= 0
PFC9600=Off
                              / Important, the PFC9600 flag should
                              / be set to OFF for normal use, currently
                              / it is just for testing purposes
CautionThroughPass=Off
                              / PFC Caution Button pressed are
                              / not handled, but passed through
                              / to 0x5534

                              / For CPFlight 737 MCP hardware www.cpflight.com
ForceHardwareLight=Off
UseInstLight=Off
IgnoreBattery=Off
                              / Ignores pmSystems battery and FS
                              / Avionics (Battery)
IgnoreAvionics=Off
                              / Ignores only FS Avionics (Battery)
DisableFSMessage=Off
                              / Disables sending messages to FS
                              / Window
NoMenu=Off
                              / Removes Menu access and close button
PauseMetric=Off
                              / First Officer Meters Pushbutton
                              / sets Pause
CargoReset=Off
                              / Cargo Buttons used for FS reset
                              / via Instructor Station (CP Center
                              / Console only)
CargoPause=On
                              / Cargo Button used for FS Pause
                              / (CP Center Console only)
CPFlightIP=
CPFlightPort= 0
                              / CP Flight IP Address and IP Port
                              / (default 4500)
CPFlightComm= 0
                              / CP Flight Comm Port
CPFlightIO=On
                              / Set CPFlightIO=Off to *disable*
                              / digital and analog input/output
DisableMIP=Off
                              / Set DisableMIP *disable* CPFlight
                              / MIP handling (e.g 737 sixpack troubleshooting)

                              / For FDS G1 Hardware Communication
FDS_G1_Comm= 0
                              / Flight Deck Solutions FDS Glare
                              / On/Off
FDSGlare=Off

                              / For Daken IFS Hardware
DakenSkys_IFS_Comm= 0

                              / FSC MIP Hardware
FSCMIPComm= 0
FSCMIPInvertGear=Off
      /Inverts Gear Direction
FSCMIPInvertSixPack=Off
      /Inverts both Sixpack Anunciation Lines

                              / FSC Throttle Hardware Comm
                              / http://www.flightsimulatorcenter.com
FSCThrottleQuadrantComm= 0
FSCNOTMotorized=Off
FSCTQMotorDisable=Off
      /Disables the motorization of the throttle
FSCTQTrimMotorDisable=Off
      /Disables the motorization of the trim
FSCTQTrimSpeed= 30
      /Sets trim motor speed 0 min 255 max (default 30)
FSCTQInvertTrim=Off
      /Inverts Trim Motor Direction
FSCTQInvertTrimWheel=Off
      /Inverts Trim Wheel Direction (when stab trim disconnected
FSCTQTrimOffset0= 99
FSCTQTrimOffset10= 188
      /Offsets Trim Indicator for Trim 0 and Trim 10
FSCTQInvertSpoiler=Off
      /Inverts Spoiler Potentiometer Direction
FSCTQInvertSpoilerMotor=Off
      /Inverts Spoiler Motor Direction
FSCTQCalib= 0
      /UnCalibrated=0 - Calibrated=1 - Mixed=2 - Diff=3 - 2SameAs1=4 - useAdjust=5
FSCTQAdjust= 0
      /Adjusts Throttle 2 position by X
FSCSplArmPos= 0
      /Sets Spoiler Arm Position
FSCRevPct= 35
      /Travel of reversers before they are activated, min 15%, default 35%
FSCThrottle1Min= 0
FSCThrottle1Mid= 0
FSCThrottle1Max= 0
FSCThrottle2Min= 0
FSCThrottle2Mid= 0
FSCThrottle2Max= 0
FSCReverser1Min= 0
FSCReverser1Max= 0
FSCReverser2Min= 0
FSCReverser2Max= 0
FSCSpoilerMax= 0
FSCSpoilerMin= 0
FSCSingleThrottle= 0
FSCSingleReverser= 0
FSCThrIntervent=Off
FSCTQMotBuffer= 13
                              / Top and Bottom Buffer zone to switch
                              / off Throttle Motors (default 13)

                              / FSC Throttle Hardware Ver 0

                              / Cockpitsonic EHID
                              / http://www.cockpitsonic.com
EHIDComm=Off
                              / Can be set to 'On', 'Off', 'localhost'
                              / or IP Address


                              / ELAN MCP hardware
ElanComm= 0
ElanBaudRate=
                              / Please leave ElanBaudrate empty
                              / unless you know what you are doing(!)

                              / Aerosoft 747 MCP hardware www.mcp747.com
AerosoftComm= 0
AerosoftFPV= 14
AerosoftDHRST= 0
                              / Defines the action (offset 0x4F4)
                              / of the Aerosoft FPV button or DH
                              / Reset button, e.g. 14=FPV, 6=CTR
/EicasButton1=???
                              / You can define the action (offset
                              / 0x4F4) of each of the 10 EICAS
                              / buttons by setting the corresponding
                              / value here (e.g. EicasButton1=71,
                              / EicasButton10=87)

[EPIC]
DisableRemoteMCP=Off
                              / Set to on to disable input from
                              / other programs using these offsets
                              / via FSUIPC
                              / Syntax: input type = joystick,
                              / axis


[Extra]
NoFSCOptions=Off

[Trevor Hale]

ALWAYS BACKUP YOUR FILE BEFORE YOU MAKE CHANGES>>>>>


[VNAV]
DescentSpeedControl=Off
                              / when set to off, pilot controls
                              / speed with the throttle 

Turn this on, unless you prefer to control the speed...

[Autopilot]
APProjectMagenta=On // Turn this back on so your Autothrottle works again
                              / Enables the PM autopilot and overrides
                              / the FS autopilot

APBankFactor= 30 // LOWER THIS 70 is way to big lots of corrections will make it look like osculations.
APPitchFactor= 30
                              / Autopilot pitch and bank factors,
                              / the higher the value, the larger
                              / the corrections

DynamicPitch=ON // If you turn on the PM Autopilot above
                              / Enables the PM autopilot and overrides
                              / the FS autopilot
DynamicUseLoHi=Off
DynamicPitchLow= 5
DynamicPitchHigh= 19
                              / Dynamic pitch will use low (close
                              / to 100kts) and high (close to 350
                              / kts) values

DynamicPitchTAS=Off
                              / Currently Disabled

                              / Project Magenta Autopilot for Pitch
                              / and Bank modes

[Trevor Hale]

@ BOB -->  DisableAutobrakes=Off
                              / Switches Off Autobrakes below 30
                              / Knots, both for PM and FS AutoBrake
                              / System

Turn this one on to fix your issue LOL..

[blueskydriver]

Hey Trevor, I was hitting the post button and you got in just before me because I was typing this long post...lol! The good thing is we're both saying the same thing here.

Patt,

Okay, I looked at your MCP.ini...first question, are you using some sort of MCP hardware, if so what is it? Next, you have PM Autopilot=off so it is not going to use PM Autopilot (you know this already), and you are now using the FSAutopilot mode from the simulator program. And, you have tried this already, but if you are using actual MCP hardware and/or a throttle with a TOGA button to engage autothrottle on the ground, you must make sure your offset(s) are also sending the info to the FSAutopilot.

Therefore, go to FSUIPC and check the TOGA Offset and see if the "send to FS is checked"? It might be your autothrottle is setup only using the PMOffsets and the FSUIPC offsets are not sending them to the FS program as well. This could be the same with your entire MCP hardware offsets for the FSAutopilot side...that is why I ask about the actual hardware.

Next, what type of Input/Output cards are you using...FDS or something else. So, whatever they are I would want too see the FSUIPC file that has your offset settings; it is an .ini file, but I cannot remember what the first part of the file name is, before the .ini side. Can you get that for me? If you want too go deeper?

Now, for you and Bob with using the PMAutopilot=on and for it too work better, you need to look at the PM MCP.ini, as there are sections you adjust to help fix the oscillations, and you must do the trial and error method. In other words, set the value, fly it, if it's fixed leave it alone, if not fixed, you must change the value, fly it and keep repeating this until it's the way you want. This is also known as dialing it in.

Here are the sections to look at, and they do affect both bank and pitch.

[Autopilot]
APProjectMagenta=Off
                              / Enables the PM autopilot and overrides
                              / the FS autopilot

APBankFactor= 75
APPitchFactor= 30
                              / Autopilot pitch and bank factors,
                              / the higher the value, the larger
                              / the corrections

DynamicPitch=Off
                              / Enables the PM autopilot and overrides
                              / the FS autopilot
DynamicUseLoHi=Off
DynamicPitchLow= 5

For VNAV help, look at this:

[VNAV]
DescentSpeedControl=Off
                              / when set to off, pilot controls
                              / speed with the throttle

Now, look at this, it is a new feature. When you are on Descent/Approach and the AutoThrottle is controlling the throttles, and it is at idle while going down, these values will affect how it works by percentages, something like playing with Bank and Pitch that I mentioned above. In other words, another dialing in tool.

FlightIdle= 10
ApproachIdle= 15
                              / Min Idle Value for Flight/Approach
                              / (default 10% and 15%)

Finally, there are other factors that you could look at, but it's much deeper into the PM actual values of everything for speed and so on. They will not fix oscillations, but it'll change the reactions of the flight model, hard to explain in a post, so I will find the link to the area in the manuals for you later...in effect you would be editing the flight model itself.

Almost forgot, whenever you are on an Autolanding approach, make sure both Nav1 and Nav2 radios are set correctly. Sometimes, the Nav2 will not get set right with PM and this will cause the searching for the Glide Slope oscillations.

John

[blueskydriver]

Note: Please use Trevor's recommended settings he high lighted in blue and not mine. I just pointed out the sections and did not change the values at all...

John

[blueskydriver]

Did I mention I am using one finger to peck these replies from my cell phone? OMG LOL! It takes forever and I am slow like this...I need to get to my computer keyboard. 

John

[Patt737]

Thank you a lot.
Your help is very precious.

Tomorrow I will try to change only the 3 parameters of Trevor (lines in blue).

For autobrake we use our own system.

Be careful not to damage your finger, because I will still need it .....

Patt

[Trevor Hale]

Patt,

No guarantees, but this will get you started..  Please keep us posted with your progress.

Trev

[Patt737]

Hello everyone,

I'm back.....

We have tests with the Trevor lines.
Nothing changes, the oscillations are weaker.
But the plane always lands next to and before the runway.

If we use: DynamicPitch = ON here is what happens:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WLspvUCA40

Here is what we decided:

The plane works very well with APProjectMagenta = OFF, but without auto trhottle.

We are thinking of adding an A / T on the PM738fsx  flight model.
We have tested the opensky project 737 and the A / T is working well, but no TOGA.

It must be possible to add an A / T on PM and maybe a toga..

Do you know how to do it ?

Thank you

  Patt

[Trevor Hale]

In the aircraft.cfg file there is an autopilot section. Ensure the auto throttle is enabled. And all the throttle settings have values. See the attached under autopilot.


https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526949.aspx#mozTocId942782

[Patt737]

Thank you, Trevor.
I watch .
And I will make you a return

Patt

[Bob Reed]

Have you tried putting the stock FSX 737 into P3d? Give that a try and see what happens.

[Patt737]

  Thank you Bob, it's a good idea.

  Patt

[Patt737]

Hello everyone.

We did new tests.

With the original 737 fsx, but that did not change anything.

On the other hand we modified these values in the cdu:

SPD% <11000FT // 110
SPD%> 11000FT // 110
LVLCHNG% // 120

And this one in the aircraft cfg:

max_throttle_rate = 0.05

And it's much better, we have almost no swing roll.

We also observed that path given by the cdu, to intercept
the loc should not be short between loc and glide.

Only when the plane is very stable on his loc can he intercept
the glide
If not, he will no longer be able to stop the oscillations.

We still have another problem touchdown is very violent 1300 ft / min!
whereas it should be 600 ft / min I think.

With what parameter can we set this in the cdu or the aircraft.cfg?

Thanks for your help.

And now a riddle:

What can we do in a 737 cockpit with these 2 objects?



See you soon

Patt

[Trevor Hale]

I would have to check but I'm the pm MCP I think it's flare altitude. You may need to up that a tad.

[KyleH]

...

We still have another problem touchdown is very violent 1300 ft / min!
whereas it should be 600 ft / min I think.

...

Try around 300 ft/min.
600 ft/min is a typical threshold for a hard landing inspection.

[Patt737]

  Hello,

  Thank you for your answers.

  We did a flight this day and no oscillation it's great!

  What value do I need to add to Flare for a soft landing ?
  My value is 50 currently

  Can you explain to me what is this?
  Or tell me where I can find information, because I do not understand very well what these lines correspond to the mcp ini.

   AutoCRS = Off

   TerrAlt = Off

   FlightIdle= 10
   ApproachIdle= 15


  For the answer to my question .....

 

 

  Thanks

  Patt

[Trevor Hale]

    What value do I need to add to Flare for a soft landing ?
  My value is 50 currently

Means start the flare at 50 feet off the ground. maybe set this to 100, and see what happens..  If you start the flare early, you will set down easier.  If its worse, try lowering it because your flaring too soon.

   AutoCRS = Off

Automatically sets the approach crs on the MCP rather than you setting it.  This should stay off in case navdata is different then the rwy data.

   TerrAlt = Off

Not 100% sure but I think this sets the terrain mode on the ND to an Altitudee (Topographical) rather than a 3d mode but could be wrong.

   FlightIdle= 10
   ApproachIdle= 15

These are Autothrottle controls
When in a decent (LEVEL Change) the engines will slow to 10% power to reduce the speed in the descent.  When on approach and the engines slow to idle they will only drop to 15% power.

If you are having troubles slowing down on descent you can reduce this further, or if your having issues on approach with going to fast you can also reduce this.

Keep in mind though.....  Dropping to a lower power setting takes a little longer for the engines to spool back up should it be required.

Trev

[Patt737]

Hello,

Thank you very much Trevor.
I understand better now.
I'm going to test with FLARE.

I'll tell you if it's better.

Patt.

[Patt737]

Hello everyone,

We still have problems with AT pm.
All is well, if he is not active.

If not, the plane is unstable and landings with autopilot impossible.

We will try to remake a complete installation of mcp and cdu.
We do not really believe it .......

Are there any people on this forum who use pm and and p3dv3, we would like to chat with them?

We do not have pmsystem do you think this can have an impact on the behavior of AT ?

We have tried many solutions:

Test aircraft  of fs/fsx/p3d.

Change of value in air file  (pm738 fsx).
Change of value in Ini mcp file.
Change of value in Flare .

We tried to use the p3d AT, but it is not compatible with
the MCP of pm, too bad it could have helped us.

But nothing helps.
Left right swing if speed less than 150 knots.
Aircraft plunging at 1600 ft/min while at 2000 ft ground approaching the glide ....

We asked PM, but no answer.

If you have other good ideas.....

Thank you.

Patt.

[blueskydriver]

Okay, I am curious, are you setting both NAV radios and using the FO's FD to lock in the loc and G/S when intercepting?

Also, in the past it has worked for you, but not now? Are you changing things like upgrading the PM software with every new version? If so, stop and stick with a version that works. Only upgrade to the new version after everyone else has...gives time for the bugs too be worked out

Have you looked at ProSim 737? I have used PM for many years and yet, I purchased ProSim. I just like options.

John

[Patt737]

Thank John you for your reply.

We created the cockpit in 2005 and bought PM.

We used fs9 and everything worked well.
We did not use pm autopilot.

Then we installed p3dv3 in 2017.
And we have to tick pm autopilot on the mcp.
To be able to use the pm auto throttle.

P3D AT does not work as fs9 does.
We do not know why?

And it is since we are under p3dv3 that nothing goes more.

We normally schedule our plane for a descent into ILS.
Since it works with p3d, but without autothrottle. (autopilot pm off)

Patt.

[Bob Reed]

Hello everyone,

We still have problems with AT pm.
All is well, if he is not active.

If not, the plane is unstable and landings with autopilot impossible.

We will try to remake a complete installation of mcp and cdu.
We do not really believe it .......

Are there any people on this forum who use pm and and p3dv3, we would like to chat with them?

We do not have pmsystem do you think this can have an impact on the behavior of AT ?

We have tried many solutions:

Test aircraft  of fs/fsx/p3d.

Change of value in air file  (pm738 fsx).
Change of value in Ini mcp file.
Change of value in Flare .

We tried to use the p3d AT, but it is not compatible with
the MCP of pm, too bad it could have helped us.

But nothing helps.
Left right swing if speed less than 150 knots.
Aircraft plunging at 1600 ft/min while at 2000 ft ground approaching the glide ....

We asked PM, but no answer.

If you have other good ideas.....

Thank you.

Patt.

See there is something else going on here. I use PM and I use the AT through all aspects of the flight. Until just recently I used the P3D AT and autopilot and just used PM to access that. I have recently switched back to using the PM AP. I have no AT issues in the sim. I have had lots of other issues but not the Auto Throttle....

[Patt737]

Hello bob.
Thank you for the answer.

That I understand well.
You use the p3d AT and the p3d auto pilote with PM.

Are there any specific offset.

How are you doing ?

Patt