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Creality CR-10S 3d printer.

Started by Mach7, February 27, 2019, 05:38:05 pm

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Mach7

I have found a solution that I would like to share for those of you who have 3D printers.

I have been doing a lot of printing lately and keep running into the same problems that everyone else has, and that is trying to get the object to stick to the building platform during the process.

I have tried glues, tapes and just about everything you can imagine. I have even tried running higher temps on the build plate and increased the brim width in an attempt to get a quality product...however one thing is certain...if you don't have good initial adherence then the construct will be flawed.

I have probably discarded more PLA then I care to mention...occasionally I get a good print, but mostly I end up stopping the print during the initial stages when I see the tell tale signs of a print going south....until now.

I usually place masking tape over my glass build plate, as this always seemed to be the  best option for me, however I noticed that...when it was time to take the tape off...the tape would not peel off easily and the tape I did take off would leave a sticky residue behind, which I would clean off prior to applying the fresh tape for the next build.

Last week, I removed the tape when the plate was still hot as opposed to my previous method of cleaning the pate when it was at room temperature. to my surprise, the tape came off easily but left the glue behind on the build plate.

I decided to try a build on the residue alone, and to my surprise I can now achieve perfect builds...however you have to drop the plate and the material in a sink full of water in order to separate the object from the glass.

Now....I place masking tape on the build plate, run the bed up to 90 degrees, whilst ensuring the tape is pressed firmly in place, then after 10 mins I remove the tape and begin my build.

Works every time!!!

Trevor Hale

Sounds to me Like a pain in the A$$.
Ensure your nozzle is leveled to the buildplate with a sheet of Paper. 

Get yourself a sheet of Borosilicate glass (3mm) and stick a sheet of PEI (1mm) on it (Comes with 3m 2 sided tape on the PEI) attach the borosilicate glass to your buildplate with binder clips.
(Hot plate stuff sticks) (Cool Plate stuff releases)
Good Luck Sir.
Trevor Hale

Owner
http://www.cockpitbuilders.com

Director of Operations
Worldflight Team USA
http://www.worldflightusa.com

VATSIM:

Mach7

Thanks Trevor,

That actually sounds like a better mousetrap for sure.

The downside to my method is trying to get the build project released from the plate....I usually have to soak the whole package in soapy water overnight in order for the hold to relax enough in order to remove the items without damage.

Trevor Hale

That sucks...  I can only imagine the painful waiting for that.
For me, its on to the next print within minutes..  Watch the youtube videos on PEI sheets and you will see.  It took me 3 prints to get it figured out, and the temperature right.  Printing with PLA its 210 on the nozzle and 63 on the bed.
Trev
Trevor Hale

Owner
http://www.cockpitbuilders.com

Director of Operations
Worldflight Team USA
http://www.worldflightusa.com

VATSIM:

IFLY3

what Trevor said,dialing in the bed is key,and remove the plate when removing objects.

sagrada737

Hi guys,

This is an interesting thread, as I have recently gotten into 3D printing.   I have two Creality CR-10S Pro printers.   I have spent about three months working out how best to utilize this technology to make viable parts for my 737 Sim.   In reality, there are limitations to 3D printing, however, it is a viable tool for many of our needs in building a flight simulator.

The most significant factor in 3D printing toward obtaining good print results, is understanding the limitations of the filament material one is using in relation to the part design desired to be printed.   This concerns itself mainly with dimensional stability and structural integrity.

The CR-10S Pro, like many of the low cost 3d printers uses FDM (Fused Deposition Modeling) technology.   This approach uses "layers" of filament material that gets extruded through a nozzle, to essentially "stack" layers of material to yield the design geometry required in the printed part.   In this regard, two critical factors are important to get right, or the print result will suffer.   These are:   1. Bed Adhesion, and 2.  Slicer Settings.

BED ADHESION is peculiar to the type of material being printed.   The most common filament material is PLA, which is fairly easy to print, and fairly easy to achieve good bed adhesion.   However, PLA is not the best choice for structure parts, as layer separation can be a factor, which may cause the part to break apart.   PLA is not the best choice for dimensional stability.   Things like Bezels for gauges can easily be made from PLA.   However, other filament materials that offer greater strength, may have other issues -- bed adhesion being one of them.   Nylon and ABS filament materials are an example of materials that have demanding bed adhesion issues. 

In my experimentation with 3D printing, I have found that a simple glass mirror plate works the best for PLA type of materials, including PLA-Carbon Fiber (CF) filaments.   For other filament materials, I have found that Kapton sheet or tape is excellent for bed adhesion, with a water based glue stick for PLA/PLA-CF and Nylon/Nylon-CF.  For ABS filament, using the Kapton tape and an acetone/ABS slurry makes for excellent bed adhesion.

SLICER SETTINGS are important as well to obtaining a good print result.   The Slicer is essentially the post-processor between the Solid Modeling CAD program (I use FreeCAD) and the 3D Printer.  The Slicer is where all the settings are made, which results in the GCode file that the 3D Printer can understand for printing the part.  The "magic" is done in the Slicer, and getting the setting correct for the type of material being printed.

Bottom line is...   Get the Bed Adhesion right, and the Slicer settings right, and you can achieve printing a good part.   Get either one of these screwed up and you will have nothing but problems getting good results from your 3D printer.  That said, the world of 3D printing opens up a whole new opportunity for the Sim Builder, with many opportunities for making various parts for our Sims.   

For example...   I used my 3d printers to make Projector Supports for my three Optoma GT1080HD projectors.   In this case, I used a PLA material.   I have used the PLA-Carbon Fiber material effectively to make Bezels and Cases for various assemblies, etc..  The filament material I am liking the most now, is PETG-Carbon Fiber.   It has good dimensional/strength qualities.  Where strength is required, Nylon-Carbon Fiber is a good choice.   However, each of these materials requires special consideration with respect to part design, bed adhesion, and Slicer settings.  Again...   Get all that right,and you get good parts.

Regards,
Mike
P3d v3.x with Sim-Avionics (two computers), FDS MIP, 3-Optoma HD GT180 projection display driven by a single nvidia GTX980.

kattz


n4208t

I have a glass bed on my Tevo Tornado and have used everything that has been suggested.  For me, I found that a diluted mixture of white glue and water applied to the bed and allowed to dry has worked great.  Since switching to that I have not had adhesion problems.  I also wipe the bed down with alcohol before each print and periodically put a bit more of the diluted white glue on as needed.

My other printer (Anycubic 4Max Pro) has the opposite issue.  That bed has incredible adhesion and prints can actually be sometimes hard to remove, even if you allow them to cool completely.

There are many solutions out there.  Sometimes you have to play with a number of them to find what works best for you.

Agree with everything that has been said but what settings work best for you depend, to some extent, on your individual printer and the way you have it set up.  You also need to keep it maintained.  Every printer I have owned has needed tweaking and repairing at some point.

Steve

Mach7

i also have a Creality 3D printer and had problems with the PLA sticking to the bed...but found a very simple solution....hairspray.

First, I let let the bed get to 80 degrees before I do my levelling, as I find if you level it cold, once heated it removes that tolerance.

I then coat it with spray and viola...a perfect stick every time.

Once the print is complete, I let the bed cool..then remove the glass bed and stick it in the fridge for a while so the project comes off the plate with ease.

Trevor Hale

And..... Your printer has shiny hair when your all done.  (2 for one) LOL
Trevor Hale

Owner
http://www.cockpitbuilders.com

Director of Operations
Worldflight Team USA
http://www.worldflightusa.com

VATSIM:

kattz

Aqua Net Super Hold works the best.

ame

I use blue painter's tape on mine. Nothing else.

Joe Lavery

May 01, 2020, 01:33:25 am #12 Last Edit: May 01, 2020, 01:44:51 am by Joe Lavery
I'm sure I've mentioned this before,
but there's a product called Printbite that cured all my adhesion problems. As long as your level is correct it's an amazing product. When the bed it hot it grips the part like a vice but once it's cool, you can simply lift it off.
I used it on top of a mirror tile which provides a perfectly flat surface.

Incidentally I have no affiliation with this company or it's products.

https://shop.3dfilaprint.com

In fact I understand there are other companies offering similar products, It's a PEI self adhesive sheet.
Here's one I found on Amazon, that looks similar.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B07KCVDPXH/ref=dp_olp_afts?ie=UTF8&condition=all&qid=1588326208&sr=8-11

Hope that helps someone.
'Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain!'
www.pcpilot.net

sagrada737

May 09, 2020, 03:07:02 pm #13 Last Edit: May 09, 2020, 03:12:40 pm by sagrada737
Since I just finished printing some parts for my Steering Tiller (separate thread), I thought I would comment on what I do for relaible "Bed Adhesion".

I should point out that what folks are doing for bed adhesion is highly subjective, with everyone through trial and error finding "what works".   You can't argue with what is working, but fortunately, there are tried and proven methods for bed adhesion that indeed work, taking some of the mystery out of 3D printing.  The thing to remember is that not all bed adhesion methods work with all filaments.  That is to say... What works well for PLA may not work at all for PETG or ABS filament bed adhesion.

What is very important to remember is this:   Bed Adhesion is a critical part of the 3D Printing process, with that "FIRST LAYER" being the most import layer.   Also critical to this is Bed Temperature, Bed material, adhesion material (glue stick, hair spray, slurry, etc.), printing parameters ( speed and temperature, etc.).   Some filaments are very easy to print with, PLA being a good example.   Other filaments, like PETG, Nylon, ABS, and "blended" filaments (like Nylon-carbonfiber), are more of a challenge when it comes to bed adhesion.

For example, ABS filament adheres well when using an Acetone-ABS slurry mix to prep the print bed prior to printing.  In addition, Kapton tape provides an excellent surface for 3D printing.  In fact, for my printing setup, I use mirror tiles for the heated bed.  On one printer, I use Kapton tape (single piece covering the whole tile), and just the mirror tile on the other 3D printer.

Also, the geometry of the part to be printed plays an important factor in how well it will print, look, and perform -- not to mention how well they might stick to the print bed during printing.  3D printing is an "additive process", and there is some geometry that can be very difficult to print -- curling being a prominent problem.  This is one reason why it is good "to design for 3D printing".  In this regard, you can use post processes to help achieve what you want in the part design, such as post drilling/reaming, installation of fasteners, etc.

On it goes...  That said, 3D printing offers a great way to make parts that are usable in our Sim projects.

Mike
P3d v3.x with Sim-Avionics (two computers), FDS MIP, 3-Optoma HD GT180 projection display driven by a single nvidia GTX980.

kattz

I'm working on finishing up a Folgertech FT-5 and have completely redesigned the head, adding a Bowden remote extruder to lighten the hotend carriage, and added auto-bed leveling.

I'm using a $100 XYX Davinci 1.1 Plus, and that beastly little contraption has had so many engineering changes to improve print quality and reliability that it's ridiculous.

But, it's punching out all of the upgrade parts for the FT-5 and some parts that I need for the infamous combined airspeed/altimeter gauge conversion...

I don't know crap about Arduino, but being a relative AutoCAD master means that I can punch out 3D .stl's pretty quick.

Our motto should be "Pajama Pilots - daring to make it better than the original." 

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