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Modification of Backlit panel help....

Started by Mach7, March 05, 2020, 05:17:04 am

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jackpilot

March 08, 2020, 05:25:50 am #25 Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 05:32:41 am by jackpilot
I use these little cards, (can be daisy chained and include a fuse) to feed the panels.
2 or 3 might cover all your needs.

https://flightdeck-solutions.myshopify.com/collections/hardware/products/fds-ibl-dist

https://flightdeck-solutions.myshopify.com/collections/hardware/products/fds-ibl-dist-exp


Jack

Mach7

@Jackpilot,

Thanks for the information.

I think I am just going to run 14 gauge wire from the PSU to a central terminal block...as close to the panels as possible...then utilize 22 gauge wires that run to each panel for operation.

When I initially gutted and rewired the panels years ago, I replaced all the OEM panel conections with 22 gauge, and then stowed the wires behind the panel(s) for future use.

I will definitely have to live with some voltage drop, however I have already tested a couple of using a 5 foot run of 22 gauge, and they display adequate brightness.

To ensure all panels illuminate uniformly, I will ensure all the 22 gauge runs are the same length from the terminal block, even the ones closest to the panels in question.

I am in the process of changing out some of the old burnt out bulbs...and you were right when you said switching to LEDs would be a massive undertaking. Some of these panels have in excess of 80 bulbs!!! and just replacing these small grain of wheat lamps is very precise work.

Luckily I have set up a 'test' station outside of the simulator where I can check for any shorts in the board, and to ensure my new soldered in bulbs function properly.

I am also going to install a circuit breaker from the terminal block to each of the runs, set a couple of amps above the panel requirement, as opposed to placing one large breaker from the PSU to the terminal block.

-jim


Garys

Quote from: Mach7 on March 08, 2020, 06:36:55 amI am also going to install a circuit breaker from the terminal block to each of the runs, set a couple of amps above the panel requirement, as opposed to placing one large breaker from the PSU to the terminal block.

-jim



Jim, Always put an inline fuse on the main wiring running from the power supply to any distribution/terminal blocks.

KyleH

Quote from: Garys on March 08, 2020, 08:41:54 am
Quote from: Mach7 on March 08, 2020, 06:36:55 amI am also going to install a circuit breaker from the terminal block to each of the runs, set a couple of amps above the panel requirement, as opposed to placing one large breaker from the PSU to the terminal block.

-jim



Jim, Always put an inline fuse on the main wiring running from the power supply to any distribution/terminal blocks.

Absolutely. The most likely scenario for blowing out a fuse will be miss-wiring or a tool bridged across a terminal block.
Kyle

Chief Pilot
Worldflight Team USA
http://www.worldflightusa.com

Mach7

Just an update....the wiring of the overhead panels is going fairly well.

Like I said in my previous post(s) I had pre wired the panels during the modification stage years ago, and I am using a 5 volt 10 amp power supply to test the panels individually as there is too much draw to connect them all up at once.

Once I wired them all up I noticed each panel was only getting around 3.6 volts, and one panel in particular was showing 1.6 volts...I also notice the power supply was getting very warm to the touch, however the draw from the outlet was only showing .93 amps.

With this info, I figured I had a short somewhere in the system, and tracked it down to the electrical panel wiring...

I installed a new wire run to said panel which solved the problem, I am now getting 4.8 volts to each.

I await my SE 600 5 volt 100 amp supply to connect it all up at which point I will post some pictures.

One last question....

I am finding a lot of light bleed through the panels, (due to age etc), and was wondering if anyone knows the correct shade of gray these panels are painted/coated with. I would like to touch up the "bare spots" to eliminate the bleed.

I think flight deck gray, (or Grey for those of you who reside in the UK),  is a standard shade (??)

Thanks!

-Jim


jackpilot

March 12, 2020, 05:33:13 am #30 Last Edit: March 12, 2020, 05:34:06 am by jackpilot
Even in the same real aircraft there not ONE shade but many variations of it. different suppliers different dates, replacements etc.
You have to test yourself. Have a paint store analyse one panel (computer match) ; For that I use Tamiya model spray paint. Gunship Grey...Close enough for me.
 


Jack

Mach7


Mach7

March 13, 2020, 01:22:16 pm #32 Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 01:22:54 pm by Mach7
Here are some pics. Thought i would take some while i have the sim apart for the back light upgrade.

All my wire runs and system boards are documented...i even keep a tech log...which i have found very handy for re ocurring problems.

Mach7

Hello All...new power supply came in today and all the lights are now hooked up. Drawing about 1.99 amps from the wall outlet...so well under budget. Still have lots of work ahead of me changing out burnt out bulbs, and touching up the panels to reduce/eliminate light bleed.

Mach7


Garys

That's a great looking sim. Good to see you got your backlighting issues sorted.

jackpilot

Tons of work...amazing result
Congrats
Jack


Jack

Fabian

that looks great! what a nice sim!
Mach7, can I ask where you got replacement bulbs for your burnt ones?

Thanks!


Mach7

And...just some FYI for anyone soldering these type of bulbs in...they are very small and delicate, especially the leads.

I use an alligator clip at the base of the bulb, then cut my leads to expose 1.4 inch after the clip...make sure you 'tin' each lead with dip of solder..then bend them gently to fit the application with ease as you solder them in.

The alligator clip will dissipate most of the heat so you can take your time soldering them in.



Mach7

Hello Guys, another question regarding amp draw on these lamps.

I have included a couple of pics,one was my initial setup and the second is the way the system is organised now.

Initially I tapped only one V+ and one V- off the power supply, and then used terminal block via a jumper to duplicate the power and ground runs to there respective distribution buses...one bus block for the system panel lamps, and the other for the circuit breaker lamps.

Each block, with all panels on line, would draw around 25 amps.

As I reviewed the setup, I realised that the 14 gauge wire run from the power supply, (which is rated to handle 32 amps max), was now handling 50 amps!

With this in mind I had two choices, replace the 14 gauge wire(s) and associated jumpers (s), (the one from the power supply to the first terminal block) with 10 gauge wire, or utilise the extra V+ & V- outputs from the power supply..(The SE600 has three V plus and minus connections).

I ask that you take a look at setup two and see if this looks like a plausible solution.

Also, I am planning on installing two circuit breakers in the system, one off of each power supply (+) run rated at 30 amps each.

jackpilot

March 28, 2020, 07:01:14 am #42 Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 07:03:48 am by jackpilot
My PSU is a PC PSU
I used all output wires from the PSU to the bus bar
Red    5V
Yellow 12V
Black  Gnd
Not sure this is THE way to do it but it works fine for both OVH and misc lights


Jack

KyleH

How far away is your power supply from the load?

Take a look at the calculator at the bottom of this page. (Select 6V DC) https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

Take the resulting voltage drop and multiply it by the amps in the wire, and you'll get the power loss you'll have in that length of wire, aka how much energy will be heating up the wire.

The best solution is to locate the power supply close to where it's needed and keep the wires short.
Otherwise, yes, use the multiple ports on that supply to split up the loads as you've drawn it in sample 2.
Kyle

Chief Pilot
Worldflight Team USA
http://www.worldflightusa.com

Mach7

My concern was not voltage drop in this most recent post...

KyleH

You might not think you were, but voltage drop is a power consumption and thus heating of the wire which is what needs to be considered with your current ratings and wiring distance.
Spreading it out over more wires will limit this issue.

You've spec it to handle 32 amps which is a chassis wiring (read short length in air not a bundle) limit.
Realistically this is a power delivery application which lowers the available current load in the wire for a DC application.

Dividing the load across more wires will be required in your situation.
Kyle

Chief Pilot
Worldflight Team USA
http://www.worldflightusa.com

Mach7

@KyLeh

Which I have essentially done in setup 2. The wires form the power supply to the first terminal block are 7 inches, the rest (14 gauge) are 5 feet, then from the distribution blocks (22 gauge) range anywhere from 2 to 3 feet.

Power readings at each panel are relatively constant at 4.87 volts...I can live with that.

None of the wires are in a bundle.

My main concern with the initial post was that 14 gauge wire has a max amp rating of 32 amps...I needed to reduce that as I was sending 50 amps through the wires from the power supply to the first terminal block (see diagram)

I believe I have solved this issue by duplicating the runs from said power supply, thereby dividing the load somewhat equally to each (14 gauge) wire down to 25 amps per....

KyleH

Quote from: Mach7 on March 28, 2020, 08:00:49 am...
I believe I have solved this issue by duplicating the runs from said power supply, thereby dividing the load somewhat equally to each (14 gauge) wire down to 25 amps per....

With those numbers, yes you should be fine with your 'setuptwo' you posted.


I'm just trying to add enough detail with my replies so that anyone coming across this topic later understands there is more involved at these current levels than a simple 'is this wire gauge enough'


BTW I really like the looks of your sim.
Kyle

Chief Pilot
Worldflight Team USA
http://www.worldflightusa.com

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