Hi to all,
First of all I would like to thank everyone for the great support and usefull advices given to me all these years. I must admit that without the help of many people in the group, my home cockpit wouldn't look like it looks today.
Secondly I would like to apologize for posting a thread with a subject that have been discussed many times in the past, but I beleive that, as with all electronic equipment out there, projectors specs and attributes change from week to week so I would like to go to the best possible and up to date solution.
So, as you see in the pictures below, I have built and installed a three rail independent projector system above my shell, which can move its projector back, forth, left, right, up, down and swivel 360 degrees. My main issue is that my roof is pitched so I had to discover the way to fix this problem. This means that when the times comes and the projectors are in place I can make any micro-movements to it's projector and hopefully have a good result at the end of the day. Just for your info the rails come from IKEA curtain rails sold everywhere in the world.
The pics...
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi638.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu109%2FNick1150%2FMy%2520Cockpit%2FIMG_0997.jpg&hash=b6bac841a7dad21d535e111fa037716dd01cd6c0)
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi638.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu109%2FNick1150%2FMy%2520Cockpit%2FIMG_0678.jpg&hash=fd21b5663b732e198bddaa44cc6b2cae0ee47c5f)
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So given that I can adjust the throwing distance from 0.5 meters to 2.0 meters which is the best projector solution you advise me to go to ?
I am thinking of course to go to the usual route of curved screen possibly by plasterboards or fabric with bangees as many have followed here, so any advice will be highly appreciated...
Thank you in advance,
Hi Nick,
Since I've seen your sim alive, ;) if you give me exact dimensions of the sim room part where it stands I could calculate the projector solution for you. :angel:
Nick
I use the BenQ MW851UST Ultra Short Throw projectors (1280 x 800 p) in a 210 deg. FOV flat screen setup (see pictures).
I find the immersion as good as with a curved screen. I still use warping software (Fly Elise Immersive Display Lite 2) for minor corrections. The advantage of flat screens is no loss of image quality caused by warping (mainly vertical). You would not need warping software at all due to your magnificent mechanical adjustment devices.
Quote from: sluyt050 on February 21, 2013, 02:41:22 AM
I use the BenQ MW851UST Ultra Short Throw projectors (1280 x 800 p) in a 210 deg. FOV flat screen setup (see pictures).
I find the immersion as good as with a curved screen. I still use warping software (Fly Elise Immersive Display Lite 2) for minor corrections. The advantage of flat screens is no loss of image quality caused by warping (mainly vertical). You would not need warping software at all due to your magnificent mechanical adjustment devices.
Well, you have definitely proved what many of us suspected, namely that a flat screen setup beats a curved screen quality wise. Easier to build and better image quality...who would choose a curved screen now after seeing this? Well done Edward!
Maurice
Are you bouncing each projector to it's screen instead of "shooting" across to the screen?
Quote from: sluyt050 on February 21, 2013, 02:41:22 AM
I use the BenQ MW851UST Ultra Short Throw projectors (1280 x 800 p) in a 210 deg. FOV flat screen setup (see pictures).
I find the immersion as good as with a curved screen. I still use warping software (Fly Elise Immersive Display Lite 2) for minor corrections. The advantage of flat screens is no loss of image quality caused by warping (mainly vertical). You would not need warping software at all due to your magnificent mechanical adjustment devices.
If I understand you well, it is direct bouncing to the screen. As you can see from the picture the projectors are quite close to the screen and well mutually spaced. That's the advantage of ultra short throw. I am certain that if I ever place a 737 cockpit shell there will be no shadow problems. Only replacing a bulb.!!!......I am looking for a batman suit....
Quote from: Maurice on February 21, 2013, 03:29:48 AM
Quote from: sluyt050 on February 21, 2013, 02:41:22 AM
I use the BenQ MW851UST Ultra Short Throw projectors (1280 x 800 p) in a 210 deg. FOV flat screen setup (see pictures).
I find the immersion as good as with a curved screen. I still use warping software (Fly Elise Immersive Display Lite 2) for minor corrections. The advantage of flat screens is no loss of image quality caused by warping (mainly vertical). You would not need warping software at all due to your magnificent mechanical adjustment devices.
Well, you have definitely proved what many of us suspected, namely that a flat screen setup beats a curved screen quality wise. Easier to build and better image quality...who would choose a curved screen now after seeing this? Well done Edward!
Maurice
To be honest Maurice, there is probably a slight negative remark to be made with respect to flat screens. With a clear bright sky for instance, I think there are more specular reflections concentrated at the 2 corners and mainly on the side screens, that are experienced as a white haze or over exposure effect of the darker areas of the image. With a curved screen I think this effect is also there but not concentrated at one place. Anyway, for me it is not a big item.
Hello Edward,
Congratulations on your new "flat screen setup". The image quality looks great!
In reviewing your Layout Sketch, I noticed a Radius of 160 inches. Is that correct? That would put the screen diameter at around 26 feet. Perhaps you meant a Radius of 80 inches.
Could you clarify these dimensions? Thanks.
Mike
Thanks Mike,
In my drawing you see R=169 cm. So this is 169/2.54=~66". So this gives a screen diameter of 66*2/12=11 feet.
My real setup is a little bit smaller and comes down to ~87" screens (=^10.7 feet screen diameter).
Thank you all for the info,
Actually I was thinking of 3 screens instead of a curved one, but to be honest I am not in the stage to decide right now. Simple things first... I am trying to decide about my 3 projectors first.
Nick thanks for the support, I will measure my room and come back
Sluyt I admire your setup, and maybe I will follow your route. I am using an ultimate short through projector too for 2 years now and I know the advantages, but there is one disadvantage on them in case there is not enough height in the room, since the space gained iwidth is lost in height, so you endup having the screen too low in the floor. Thats why I need a short throw solution instead of ultra or ultimate short throw system.
This has got me interested in staying with the 3 flat screens that I have been using for some years now. I have always decided that the answer was curved screens...But....My set up is 3 x 8 foot wide movable screens. But due to having long throw projectors I had to move the cockpit back too far, so that the angles for 220 degrees view were out of kilt, so figured with the 3 new short throw projectors I have, but not as yet used, that I would opt for curved screens.
But it maybe easier to go with new flat movable screens, for ease of construction and being able to move the 2 outer ones to give access to more space when needed.
All worth thinking about. Will do some testing on the idea.
Regards...............Brian W.
Nick,
Nice set-up to easily adjust the projectors. I'm hoping that the tracks are attached to a ceiling that isn't a floor above that someone can walk on.
Curved screens vs flat screens have been a topic of debate for quite some time. With the proper warping software on a curved screen, you will get a seemless image that will look more realistic than 3 flat screens. Of course that set-up takes more work to get it right. Pros and cons to both.
As for sharpness....I just downloaded the latest Nvidia 314 drivers which has allowed my 3 BenQ MW 814 ST projectors to display a 5760 (1920x3) x 1080 resolution display on my curved screen. I didn't think those projectors (native 1280x800) had the capability of going that high. The image is the sharpest I've ever seen in my sim.
Harry
Thanks again guys,
No the ceiling is the the ceiling of the top floor of my house and that's why it is pitched. The room that my sim is situated is the loft of the house, so there is no issue in this.
I was thinking Benq MW814ST and also MW817ST too. Honestly I dont see any difference between them...
Hi Nick,
Nice...real nice...now a mental note for Nick's overworked brain. Put a fan somewhere up there to blow the heat down and away. All the heat of your sim, your booty and your projectors will have no where too go otherwise. That means shortened life span for your bulbs and projectors...
Trust my brain sending your brain that message, as well as that I've been there done that and got the "Nude Sim Flying Only-due to overheating" T-shirt...lol. :idiot:
John
Well done Edward. You've stuck to your guns. Looks great!
With no disrespect to Edward, but Mau are you serious?
QuoteWell, you have definitely proved what many of us suspected, namely that a flat screen setup beats a curved screen quality wise. Easier to build and better image quality...who would choose a curved screen now after seeing this? Well done Edward!
Maurice
How is the image quality any worse on a curved screen? When I looks at your pictures and videos, they look just as good...confused.
Nat
Quote from: melnato on February 22, 2013, 02:36:52 AM
How is the image quality any worse on a curved screen? When I looks at your pictures and videos, they look just as good...confused.
Nat
Pictures & videos can be quite deceiving Nat. All I know is that if I kill the warping even on my curved screen, the objects look sharper than when they are warped. It probably would not be as obvious in pictures but I can see a distinct difference/improvement even with my aging eyes :)
You can't possibly be thinking that warping has no effect on image quality, can you?
Maurice
As stated I am between Benq MW814ST and 817ST, I will have to choose in my local shop on the spot for that, because the difference is too small between them, but I am thinking out loud here, and the solution of 3 flat screen is passing my mind, because mainly of simpicity....
Quote from: sluyt050 on February 21, 2013, 02:41:22 AM
I use the BenQ MW851UST Ultra Short Throw projectors (1280 x 800 p) in a 210 deg. FOV flat screen setup (see pictures).
I find the immersion as good as with a curved screen. I still use warping software (Fly Elise Immersive Display Lite 2) for minor corrections. The advantage of flat screens is no loss of image quality caused by warping (mainly vertical). You would not need warping software at all due to your magnificent mechanical adjustment devices.
Can you please record a short video in action to see the result ? I am aminly concerned at the two corners that are created...
This would be highly appreciated,
Thanks
Nick,
As you haven't made the jump, go with the flat screens first.
Use three sheets of any thin and bendable material (like the peg board material, not sure what it is called), make sure it has a texture so it is paintable (not smooth like a dry erase board)
Build a simple framework stand and test it out. See how you like the three flat screens. You can then bend it all into a curve and test it that way too.
Once you've got something to compare with, you can refine the current setup by cutting to size and painting, or drop the cash for real screens.
I built mine in the garage first, and laid the projectors on the floor. Then I made all the adjustments and and built the framework for my screens. Once I had it as perfect as I could get it, I moved it all into my sim room and mounted the projectors on the ceiling.
Warren
QuoteYou can't possibly be thinking that warping has no effect on image quality, can you?
Hey Mau,
I did the test and saw a slightly sharper image.
But...it actually looked worse as far as "jaggies" were concerned.
Sol7(WARP) actually gives me nice "anti-aliasing" when running.
I guess everyones system is different.
Nat
Quote from: HarryZ on February 21, 2013, 06:46:08 PM
As for sharpness....I just downloaded the latest Nvidia 314 drivers which has allowed my 3 BenQ MW 814 ST projectors to display a 5760 (1920x3) x 1080 resolution display on my curved screen. I didn't think those projectors (native 1280x800) had the capability of going that high. The image is the sharpest I've ever seen in my sim.
Harry
I'll have to try that again although I thought the image was worse the first time I tried but what was the effect on frame rates with such a high resolution? I doubt there is a free lunch fps wise with FSX:)
Maurice
QuoteI'll have to try that again although I thought the image was worse the first time I tried but what was the effect on frame rates with such a high resolution? I doubt there is a free lunch fps wise with FSX:)
Maurice
The effect on FPS was not as much as I thought might happen. I've got my max FPS set to 30. I was getting the max most of the time while in front of the terminal buildings (depending on scenery being used) but at some airports it would drop to 25 or so. With the new higher res, at CYYZ (Blueprint Scenery) I'm now getting about 24 which is quite acceptable. When I taxi away from the terminal, it jumps back up to the 30 max most of the time.
Here are a few pics I took last night. It was raining in some of them..thus the white streaks of rain.
(//)
Looks pretty good Harry. I'll have to try the higher resolution again.
Thanks,
Maurice
Harry,
Not wishing to hijack this thread but what sky software are you using...
Regards
Joe
Harry,
I tried again the higher resolutions in my setup and the image definitely looks worse to me. Probably my older projectors are not as good as yours.
Nick,
These projectors mounts seem like very fancy & expensive ones. What brand are they or are they the ones made to fit a particular brand of projectors?
Thanks,
Maurice
Quote from: Joe Lavery on February 24, 2013, 12:13:20 AM
Harry,
Not wishing to hijack this thread but what sky software are you using...
Regards
Joe
I'm using Warpalizer by Univisual Technologies.
Harry
Quote from: Maurice on February 24, 2013, 04:03:12 AM
Harry,
I tried again the higher resolutions in my setup and the image definitely looks worse to me. Probably my older projectors are not as good as yours.
Maurice
[/quote]
Hmmm...higher resolutions "should" give you a clearer, crisper image...depending on the native resolution of your projectors. I know that in my older single projector display (800x600), if I tried to go to a higher res, there was indeed some blurring as the projector has to try and expand the pixels to fill the image.
What projectors are you currently using and what is their native res?
Harry
Quote from: HarryZ on February 24, 2013, 05:13:38 AM
Quote from: Joe Lavery on February 24, 2013, 12:13:20 AM
Harry,
Not wishing to hijack this thread but what sky software are you using...
Regards
Joe
I'm using Warpalizer by Univisual Technologies.
Harry
Joe,
Sorry, I misread your question...I'm using Flight Environment by Flight 1 and Active Sky 2012 for the wx generator. I find Flight 1's clouds are a little more detailed than AS.
Also had to fine tune Window's color depiction along with the color setup within the projectors themselves. Add FXAA to the pot and this is the result I've got.
Harry
Harry,
I may be mistaken. I thought the lower resolution looked better but I took some pics to compare and the pics show a different story so I need to try again. I will answer again via PM so as not to totally derail this thread.
Maurice
Thanks Harry, I appreciate you taking the time to reply...
I'll check out Flight Environment, It's one I haven't had a go at... :D
Cheers
Joe.
Quote from: Nick1150 on February 22, 2013, 09:40:26 PM
As stated I am between Benq MW814ST and 817ST, I will have to choose in my local shop on the spot for that, because the difference is too small between them, but I am thinking out loud here, and the solution of 3 flat screen is passing my mind, because mainly of simpicity.... Quote from: sluyt050 on February 21, 2013, 02:41:22 AM
I use the BenQ MW851UST Ultra Short Throw projectors (1280 x 800 p) in a 210 deg. FOV flat screen setup (see pictures).
I find the immersion as good as with a curved screen. I still use warping software (Fly Elise Immersive Display Lite 2) for minor corrections. The advantage of flat screens is no loss of image quality caused by warping (mainly vertical). You would not need warping software at all due to your magnificent mechanical adjustment devices.
Can you please record a short video in action to see the result ? I am aminly concerned at the two corners that are created...
This would be highly appreciated,
Thanks
I am preparing to shoot a video from my setup Nick. Please be patient since this this would be my first one using my new ipad...
Quote from: Maurice on February 24, 2013, 04:03:12 AM
Nick,
These projectors mounts seem like very fancy & expensive ones. What brand are they or are they the ones made to fit a particular brand of projectors?
Thanks,
Maurice
Hello Maurice,
Very sorry for taking so much time to answer, but I haven't received any email notification.
Today I wanted to post a question and read all these replies since my last post!
Sorry for that again,
About the projectors mount... Actually these mounts are very cheap but need work to create. I bought 3 cheap universal projector mounts, like 9.99 euro each and I created with the help of a friend talented in metal works this result mounted on a usual curtains rail. The result is to have all axis available, including forward and aft, changing the throw distance that is.
It's not something expensive but it needs time and effort to build it.
My ceiling is inclined, and also at the time I was building my cockpit base I haven't decided yet about my projectors, so I needed a flexible solution then, in order to be ready when the time comes.
Hope that helps...
So I finally decided and bought my 3 projectors. I decided that Benq MW817ST (http://www.benq.com/product/projector/mw817st) would be my solution, and all 3 of them are now ready for their first tests on my cockpit, hopefully this afternoon after work...
So now my next step is which software to use ?
Which are my alternatives ?
Any pros and cons of each one ?
Thank you in advance,
aaa and a few pics of my cockpit just for the fun of it... Just finished my metal cockpit floor and purchased the rest of my pedestal modules from CPflight, all cables have been made from the start, solenoid switches are on the way to be installed on my overhead and also 4 speakers have been installed on the cockpit ceiling for the call outs only.... This hobby never ends!
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi638.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu109%2FNick1150%2FMy%2520Cockpit%2FIMG_1200_zps24eb80dc.jpg&hash=0bce0964b9f68edf263813c4c9e09d30bfc15099)
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Nick,
Have sent you a PM.
Harry
Hi to all,
So after a long weekend mounting, testing and tweaking with my new setup, I went to the Fly Elise Pro solution. I have made a test flight, and one thing I can tell you... I am not going back! 180 degrees FOV makes a difference !!!
These are the good news... the bad news are that now I HAVE to decide about my screen ;)
I am trying to find a material to test, flat or curved, as Warren advised me, something that can stand on the floor, bendable enough, to be able to be bought in rolls so that it is note in sheets and create joints in the screen...
Any idea ?
Any advise about flat vs screen would be highly appreciated guys.
Thanks
Huhhh I forgot pics :huh:
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi638.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu109%2FNick1150%2FMy%2520Cockpit%2FIMG_1212_zpsb17ad24e.jpg&hash=c7d3587f7d39ea1dea1384839990b124e57058ce) (http://s638.photobucket.com/user/Nick1150/media/My%20Cockpit/IMG_1212_zpsb17ad24e.jpg.html)
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(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi638.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu109%2FNick1150%2FMy%2520Cockpit%2FIMG_1226_zps5bd444e0.jpg&hash=698e637985ec6d5caff2524ab46f5232882f849b) (http://s638.photobucket.com/user/Nick1150/media/My%20Cockpit/IMG_1226_zps5bd444e0.jpg.html)
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi638.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu109%2FNick1150%2FMy%2520Cockpit%2FIMG_1232_zpsfab3c620.jpg&hash=ee9414b78d2e0895bd72e2ed2963138402db2b4e) (http://s638.photobucket.com/user/Nick1150/media/My%20Cockpit/IMG_1232_zpsfab3c620.jpg.html)
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It's all personal choice really anymore, as both flat and curved screens can be made to look really good. I suggest you go curve and get your screen material from Carl's Place (on ebay). Both Sean Nixon and I purchased ours there, and we're both very happy we did...
Search for the curved screen thread that we both posted in about Carl's Place.
John
Thanks for the info...
Just researching my options