Capturing Glide Slope Project Magenta and FSX

[Henrique]

Hello,

most of the times, just in the moment the GS is captured and I'm beggining to descent, without any apparent reason the throttle increase thrust and the plane all off a sudden climbs and goes up the GS. I've read that this is a common problem with PM and FSX and is driving me nuts. I'm flying PMDG 737-800. Do you have the same problem? What do you do to avoid it?
Best Regards
Henrique

[Garys]

There is a little button on the yoke called the autopilot disconnect....  I push that!   Sorry couldnt help myself  j/k of course

[Maurice]

I recall that this was a problem on some airports only. One I seem to remember is Vancouver CYVR. Most other places I flew in did not have that problem.

Maurice

[NeoMorph]

I recall that this was a problem on some airports only. One I seem to remember is Vancouver CYVR. Most other places I flew in did not have that problem.

Maurice

Perhaps it's because the plane doesn't like going to Vanvouver?

I don't suppose it could be the plane icing up, could it, and then the throttling up to counter the extra weight? I was just reading about the 777 crash at Heathrow in 2008 the other day and it mentioned icing which caused the autothrottle to demand increased power. Now I don't know if the PMDG plane is that complex but it's a thought.

[Maurice]

I recall that this was a problem on some airports only. One I seem to remember is Vancouver CYVR. Most other places I flew in did not have that problem.

Maurice

Perhaps it's because the plane doesn't like going to Vanvouver?

I don't suppose it could be the plane icing up, could it, and then the throttling up to counter the extra weight? I was just reading about the 777 crash at Heathrow in 2008 the other day and it mentioned icing which caused the autothrottle to demand increased power. Now I don't know if the PMDG plane is that complex but it's a thought.

No, that is definitely not the reason. It happened every time at that airport (& probably some others as well) at various times.

Maurice

[NeoMorph]

Well it seems you aren't the only one...

Hello!

I'm 10NM away from CYVR 26L in the default FSX 737-800 preparing to autoland. I have the VOR locked and I'm beggining to descent on the GS. More or less at 5 NM without any apparent reason the throttle increase thrust and the plane all off a sudden climbs and goes up the GS. I need to do a missed approach.

What could be happening? I'm lost, please help,

Regards
Abrupto

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/258893-problem-with-glide-slope/

[blueskydriver]

Could it be that you're using the Alt levels that the FMC/CDU suggests and when you get to the FAF (GS), the aircraft climbs to meet them, if you're below them? In otherwords, if the Chart for the approach and ILS has different values for the Alt. then the PM FMC/CDU, you can try to type these in manually...

BSD

[MLeavy737]

How about a TOGA getting thrown into the mix somehow? Maybe internally? I forget the software details but what your saying about throttling up and leaving GS is what TOGA does. Does the autopilot disconnect if shooting a single channel approach? And does it do that if shooting a dual channel autoland approach ? Depending on if it disconnects or not will tell you if TOGA is setting things off.

You said VOR.. I assume you were locked on the LOC?

And once the LOC/GS is captured, it does not matter what altitudes are in FMC or MCP. The airplane will descend on GS until you either disconnect autopilot or hit TOGA.

In fact once the GS is captured, airline procedure is to put the final missed approach altitude in the MCP window!

Mike Leavy

[MLeavy737]

Oh and all of this is assuming PM works as it should... Hence the reason im working on my own

Mike Leavy

[jskibo]

Oh and all of this is assuming PM works as it should... Hence the reason im working on my own

Mike Leavy

Working on your own Avionics package?  Do tell......

[Henrique]

Oh and all of this is assuming PM works as it should... Hence the reason im working on my own

Mike Leavy

Yes that's right. Made some search on other forum and found more complaining about the same issue. Please check:

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/showthread.php/17277-GS-problem?highlight=

Henrique

[MLeavy737]

Oh and all of this is assuming PM works as it should... Hence the reason im working on my own

Mike Leavy

Working on your own Avionics package?  Do tell......

Ohh its just something that i have been wanting to do for a while now.  For me this sim stuff really changed when i started flying real 737's.  I used to be happy with how my sim worked and the realism i thought i had was just fine. Same with the avionics (PM is what i have)  I would get in it,eventually get everything configured and working.. usually the MCP wouldnt start or the CDU network wasnt configured right (prob my fault).. either way. Once it was all up and running it was fun. But in a way thats all it was and i didnt know any better. (which was fine)

Now the problem (to me).. I dont want  a sim that is just fun and maybe some stuff works like it should. My problem now is that i know too much and i want my sim (avionics and systems) to work like how im used to seeing them work 85hrs a month..

I know i could be asking too much.. I do that alot.. however  i dont think with what we have today computer and tech wise that its impossible.

Now for me computer wise.. Im by far the best programmer in the world but i have been working at it. Managed to make a few PC games lately. Not very fun however its in a window with graphics and sound using opengl. Had enough of the game stuff and lately have been designing some classes and code for avionics and systems. 

Im not looking to be the next PM or Sim Avionics. Honestly i dont even care how long it takes and would prob never sell it anyhow but i do want to take what i know about the airplane and continue to apply it to the software sid of my sim. I think i would get much more satisfaction 1) knowing that i did it and 2) knowing that it works like it should.

I letyou  know what happens
P.S. I do have an EICAS gauge working if anyone needs one
and P.S. #2.. why more people dont use Xplane if they want realism is beyone me. i cant even use FS anymore. How many airplanes do ya think can takeoff on a runway without having to steer it to keep it on the center line? lol.. Not that i want to start another Xplane vs FS war but i am writing my code to work with Xplane.

Mike Leavy

[jskibo]

Very interesting Mike.  Hopefully you'll share your progress with us.  I know I would be interested!

[Maurice]

This problem has nothing to do with PM. FSX does it all by itself without PM. Enough blame has been thrown at PM but this should not be one of them.

Best of luck Mike on your undertaking. This is a big matzo ball to swallow and being a real airline pilot unfortunately is only a small part of the equation. I believe Enzo has a real pilot on his team but the software is the real challenge as there are so many variables to consider, especially the base flight model.

In your case, you picked Plane and this is surely the right choice otherwise you would constantly be fighting the constraints that FSX throws at you and I`m sure  PM has had to deal with those constraints as well and that is probably the main reason why the results are less than perfect.

And now Microsoft will be introducing Flight and who knows where that road will lead? 

Maurice

[MLeavy737]

This problem has nothing to do with PM. FSX does it all by itself without PM. Enough blame has been thrown at PM but this should not be one of them.

Best of luck Mike on your undertaking. This is a big matzo ball to swallow and being a real airline pilot unfortunately is only a small part of the equation. I believe Enzo has a real pilot on his team but the software is the real challenge as there are so many variables to consider, especially the base flight model.

In your case, you picked Plane and this is surely the right choice otherwise you would constantly be fighting the constraints that FSX throws at you and I`m sure  PM has had to deal with those constraints as well and that is probably the main reason why the results are less than perfect.

And now Microsoft will be introducing Flight and who knows where that road will lead? 

Maurice

Your right Maurice, and Just to be clear, i never blamed this one on PM. I figured it was more of a TOAG issue with FS.. I did assume PM was working correctly however

I realize there are many problems with FS that PM struggles with but i have had PM since the beginning and definately have an opinion.. especially after spending about 2k (without starting a war of course.. my opinion)

Which brings me to another point which i think is why there are constantly problems and makes things difficult for everyone.  When you hop in a CAE or full sim, the progamming that has been done in that sim is for that specific sim and modelled after a specific tail number. I dont see how any software (PM or anyone else) can make a avionics package that will work with 737's, 727's, 747's etc, just call it Boeing and expect it to work with pretty much any flight model in FS as well as different FS versions. 

In my opinion, stick with a particular flight model/airplane sim  combo and work your avionics and performance data off that. I think there will be less issues.. maybe less sales but thats not what im after.

Microsoft Flight.. I can see it now, very pretty graphics that we all need to upgrade our hardware for.. same issues and lookup table  flight models.. hope im wrong but i dont plan on going near it.

Somone say challenge?? Bring it!   Dont really care much how long it takes and ill certainly know who to email with problems

Mike Leavy

[Sean]

Have you looked at Prosim Mike?

http://marty.selfip.com/index.html (old site)

and

http://prosim737.com/ (new site)

[MLeavy737]

Have you looked at Prosim Mike?

http://marty.selfip.com/index.html (old site)

and

http://prosim737.com/ (new site)

Thanks for the link Sean.. looks pretty good.

I like the picture of the hold entry on the displays page. If you ever entered a hold lke that you would be violated!

Mike Leavy

[jackpilot]

..... Which brings me to another point which i think is why there are constantly problems and makes things difficult for everyone.  When you hop in a CAE or full sim, the progamming that has been done in that sim is for that specific sim and modelled after a specific tail number. I dont see how any software (PM or anyone else) can make a avionics package that will work with 737's, 727's, 747's etc, just call it Boeing and expect it to work with pretty much any flight model in FS as well as different FS versions. 

In my opinion, stick with a particular flight model/airplane sim  combo and work your avionics and performance data off that. I think there will be less issues.. maybe less sales but thats not what im after.

Mike Leavy

Just my 2¢, other user may confirm:
This is  where SimAvionics differs from PM.
Have you checked in the Demo the number of parameters that can be adjusted to fit your Flightmodel/aircraft. Just open the "server" page and open all the tabs...the list of variables is quite extensive , which should allow a real custom fit to a specific aircraft.

JP

[Maurice]

Just my 2¢, other user may confirm:
This is  where SimAvionics differs from PM.
Have you checked in the Demo the number of parameters that can be adjusted to fit your Flightmodel/aircraft. Just open the "server" page and open all the tabs...the list of variables is quite extensive , which should allow a real custom fit to a specific aircraft.

JP

Actually, I have to disagree here as the real aircraft specific flight parameters are not available in SimA or PM for that matter but in some .air file in FSX or FS9 ( e.g. Boeing737-800.air). This is where flight dynamics are kept I believe. I can`t remember what program you use to open & read that file but it is available somewhere.

Having said that, I just started playing with SimA and so far I love it in many, many respects. It looks a bit daunting when you look at the documentation but it is actually pretty easy to get going at first.  Well worth trying the demo version if you still do not have other software or are thinking of changing. And do start with the .txt version of the manual as this will get you up & running quicker than reading the full manual.

Maurice

Maurice

[jackpilot]

Yes Mau but
The key word is:
"parameters that can be adjusted to fit your Flightmodel/aircraft"
SimA does not intervene on the flight model itself but allows to adapt the avionics reactions and in some way the avionics logic,  to the specifics of each  flight model.
Do'nt you think?

[Maurice]

Yes Mau but
The key word is:
"parameters that can be adjusted to fit your Flightmodel/aircraft"
SimA does not intervene on the flight model itself but allows to adapt the avionics reactions and in some way the avionics logic,  to the specifics of each  flight model.
Do'nt you think?

Well the initial question on this post had to do with the aircraft going on a steep climb after capturing the glideslope (with FSX). It would be interesting to see if someone who has SimA software could try to land at CYVR and see if the problem is still there or if SimA fixes it somehow. Anyone? Scott?  . Not sure if it was runway dependent or not so a real test would be to land on all runways or rather to just capture the glideslope as this is when the problem happens.

Maurice

[NeoMorph]

I don't think this is a PM problem but a FSX problem because the link I posted had a guy seeing the same thing with a default FSX plane and no PM.

Oh and this made me giggle...

Now for me computer wise.. Im by far the best programmer in the world but i have been working at it.

[MLeavy737]

I don't think this is a PM problem but a FSX problem because the link I posted had a guy seeing the same thing with a default FSX plane and no PM.

Oh and this made me giggle...

Now for me computer wise.. Im by far the best programmer in the world but i have been working at it.

Glad someone gets my humor!

Mike Leavy

[ETomlin]

ah...I thought you simply forgot to add the word "not" and it was a slip. At any rate, I too would love to get into some C++ and OpenGL.

[MLeavy737]

Lol oh i see. Yeah i did forget the "not". I was wondering why it made it made Neo giggle lol. So anyway yes, i am not the best programmer in the world lol. Im not that full of myself!

Damn iPhone typing.

Mike Leavy