Efe's Boeing 737NG cockpit

[Efe]

So after quite a while on break (including a six month tour of duty in the Northern Iraq border) I've decided to open this topic as it seems that I've finally had some solid developments. My cockpit started back in 2009 when I was in Switzerland for a masters degree. I started off with a OpenCockpits MCP panel and some IOCards and later went on to make some radios as well. I added the Saitek yoke, two throttle units and rudder pedals. When I was leaving Switzerland, I sold the Saitek stuff and the radios and took the MCP with me.

After that, I worked for about a year for a local airline as part of the training department, making a flight navigational and procedural trainer (FNPT). So all free time I had was either spent building that cockpit. Anyway, fast forward to 2011 and with Ian's encouragement I ordered the CP Flight radios and I plan to get the MIP and pedestal structure cut and assemble them. I bought some of them from another builder and saved some money but then the rest of the modules from CP Flight got stuck in customs (obviously nothing at all to do with CP Flight) and it seems I will have to pay 250 Euros in customs fees for a 330 Euro package. 

The only other problem is that the new house (getting married in July) has very little space in general, much less any room for a 737 dual-side cockpit. So I tried to convince the prospective Mrs. without success and I kept thinking where to set it up, even considering using one of the drawers of my desk in the study as a pedestal and placing the MCP and EFIS on the desk itself. However, today I came up with a solution and thats when I decided to start this thread.

I will keep the cockpit at the office, as we're moving to a new building in April and the basement has space (going to measure it tomorrow or Monday just to make sure its roomy enough for the projectors as well) for it. However, it will probably not advance too quickly (definitely not like John's) due to budget and time limitations. I'll keep updating this thread with some pictures and information as the project develops.

[jskibo]

Looking forward to your progress and some pics

[Efe]

I just wanted to rant a bit on an issue I've been dealing with for the past week or so. But before I do, please understand that this has nothing to do with CPFlight and their business or products, and this is in no way meant to be a post about them. This is solely about the stupid (replace with word that can't be written on a forum) policies in place here regarding customs.

Anyway, I get a call from UPS stating that the items have been stuck in customs (no surprise there!) and stating the options available. Now, I've received two CPFlight radios from Spain and another from the US, both shipped right to my door without any issues. However, these were bought from individuals and not companies so I was expecting the CPFlight shipment to get caught. Normal policy is payment of 10% of the value of the item plus some change for the paperwork, as this is a non-commercial shipment both in content and in the fact that it is being sent to an individual and not a company. So I was ready to run around for half a day and pay these fees and get my radios.

Apparently that's not the case when UPS is concerned. They informed me that I would have to go to the airport cargo terminal, do some paperwork, then go to another building somewhere and do some more paperwork, go back to the airport and make a payment, etc. Basically the lady on the phone was doing all she can to discourage me from taking care of the package myself and instead opt to work with their customs company for the clearing. When I found out that it was just a little bit more costly this way. Considering that I have lots of work to do only a month from our big trade show along with my duty to oversee the workers and the purchasing for the new house, I decided to fork over a little bit more and have them deal with it.

The next day, I receive a call from the UPS customs clearance company asking about what these items are for. I try to explain to her over the phone, emphasizing that its just an add-on for a computer, much like a mouse or keyboard. When she still doesn't understand, she asks for pictures and an explanation and I send these over. The next day I receive a phone call from her and she's got me on a conference call with the customs agent. I explain once again that these are unprogrammable pieces for computers to be used for a computer game. The customs agent asks me if these are for game consoles and I tell him just for a personal computer. Anyway, they agree on a customs code for the item and a couple of hours later I get another phone call from the company, this time to inform me that it will cost around 450 Euros to get this item through customs!!! I can't even believe my ears that they expect me to pay more than the price of the package just to get the items through customs. I told them that in my 10+ years of receiving and sending both personal and commercial items (including over 1000 Euros of hockey hear) that I have never heard of such an absurd ordeal.

So what are my other options? I can pay another 200 Euros to return the package to the sender. Or I can neglect to pick up the item and after the 20 day period it becomes property of the state to be auctioned off later. I talk with Claudio (who's been great during this whole event) and we decide that I should reject the package and once he receives the items he will ship them to my by way of normal post and not UPS. So I inform the company of my decision and guess what? Today I get an invoice in my email from them (not from the woman that has been dealing with my package but a man) for 250 Euros. So I call him and ask him why I've been given a different amount than what was previously quoted to me and I'm told the package is in the MNG Cargo depot and that they are charging the additional amount for use of the facility. So I email the woman with the invoice that the man sent me inquiring as to why I'm being billed more than the amount that she twice stated as being the final number and I receive short email stating that her male counterpart has already told me why there was a surchage.

I just sent her a reply stating that my question has nothing to do with why there was a surcharge, more so about why I wasn't told this earlier. I made a decision depending on the information she gave me and now they are introducing new costs, considering which if I had known I would've just told them to stuff it and ordered again from Claudio. If I'm going to pay 250 Euros to get a package that I've already payed 315 Euros for, I'd rather just fork over the 65 Euros more because at least then I know my money is going to someone from the community who can use it to further his business and products and not some %&/'^+ that don't know how to do their job or the government that creates ridiculous laws to make more money and then spends it on washing machines and refrigerators that they distribute to voters a few weeks before elections in order to garner more votes.

[choffmann]

Hi Efe,

it is common in Germany to tell such unbelievable stories to the TV. Usually, with involvment of media, such things clear up pretty soon...
However, I do hope that there will be some insightful person in customs who is more knowledgeable than the persons you already had to deal with...


Chris

[Maurice]

This is truly unbelievable  . No wonder some people go ballistic & do terrible things when they encounter such stupidity. I fully agree with Chris that you should try making that story public by contacting local newspapers and/or TV stations. I don't know what it's like in your country, but it may be worth a shot although you may have even more grief if you have to deal with customs again if they remember you.

Good luck and hope you can get some kind of satisfaction somehow.

Maurice 

[Nick1150]

Hi Efe,

I totaly understand what you are into right here. I am a Customs Broker my self and I can see from the other side what is the issue here. I am situated in Greece but at least I may help you from a distance.

I understand that charging an amount for the service given by the Customs Clearance company is a fact, even if the clearance was not concluded, since few agents provided their services anyway. Of course there are companies, like ours, that do not charge anything if the clearance is not concluded, unless a customs declaration is issued, which in that case Customs expenses arise. Of course we are dealing here for 30 to 40 euro and not 250 euro as you state, but then again I do not know Customs charges in your country.

I would like to help if that is possible, but please provide me with the TARIC code (product code) that has being used for the customs clearance and of course the total value of the products.

I unserstand your position, but it seems the agent has never dealt with such a product in the past.

Thanks

Nick

[phil744]

If you dont pick it up wont it just be returned back from where it originated from?

For 200 euro I bet you can get yourself a return flight to Italy and pick them up yourself, ive done that before, just qot a quote to ship a large lump of boeing from the states, and i can get a return flight and 4 nights in a decent hotel for less so guess what im gonna do

UPS (unintelligible pricing structure) are wankers I refuse to deal with them

[Trevor Hale]

This is unbelievable!  As if UPS a world reknown commpany can charge such a fee for hobby computer parts.  It is this challange that we all deal with in this hobby.  I urge you Efe to send an email or make a phone call to UPS (Head office) and complain.  I would do as was suggested and goto the tv station and speak to the editor and explain your dilema.  If nothing else it will raise awareness of such criminal behavior.

I am just glad that Claudio has been as helpful as he has.  Cpflight is awesome, and It just sucks that a transaction as simple as this has to be made so complicated.

Good luck.

Trev

[Efe]

Thanks guys for the replies. I asked them for the TARNIC code but they just forwarded me the UPS tracking code (thanks for nothing) instead. I'm too tired of this BS to reply to them. I got another radio, this time from John on here, so that's good news. Just waiting on the stuff from CPFlight.

Some more good news. The new location seems good albeit a tight fit. There is a column smack dab in the middle of the area so I will probably look to optimize use of the area by starting the pedestal from the column. Won't be the most realistic but I'd rather have a tight fit in the back of the cockpit (77 cm column width versus 46 cm pedestal width, so about 16 cm off each end of the pedestal that might interfere with the seats... won't know till I get the 3D drawing superimposed on the drawing of the area) than lose precious space for the visuals.

Plus I'm getting a pretty serious CNC Router costing around $35K. Well not me exactly but my company, as we're going into production of some materials. So I will get to use that for a lot of the cockpit stuff, and that should help with the costs.

[bussgarfield]

This is quite an interesting read.
I recently purchased Boeing flight manuals from PMDG for their 'soon about to be released NGX' !!!! and there were issues on the PMDG (AVSIM) forum about delays and costs etc.

There seems to be no standard procedure or costing with UPS. I live in Spain and had no costs what so ever when picking my large package up from my PO box in town. However, a large amount of purchasers - even the US, were being charged an excess and other countries were having difficulties and surcharges from Customs.

I don't kmow if this is just a UPS problem or a location problem.
Strange when I come to think of it, as most 'professional' sellers on Ebay, refuse to post to Spain for some reason.
What a strange and frustrating postal world we live in.

Gary

[Efe]

Well the parts went back to Claudio and he sent them back again my way. Should receive them next week and this time without UPS. Funny thing is, I still haven't made the 250 Euro payment for returning the package to Italy because all they sent was an email with the account details. 

Anyway, I finally have details about the new CNC router the company purchased. I got to see the machine during an unfortunate 40 minute return drive to the new factory because the operator couldn't get the computer to turn on. Its a Giordano Colombo RS Series (Manual Tool Change) model 90.2. I'm not too familiar with the machines but for those of you that speak the language, here are some specs.

From the web:
Kw range (DUTY CYCLE S1-100%): 2.2 - 5.5
RPM range: 18,000-24,000
Weight: 8-15 kg

Additional info from the tag on the machine itself:
V: 380
Hz: 300-400
HP: 7.5
A: 12.5

Anyone have any ideas what type of material this thing can process?

[ChrisKLAS]

What an ordeal, Efe. Glad Claudio's got you sorted out. As others have said, he is a class act and makes CPFlight an absolute pleasure to deal with every time.

Regarding customs duty, I will say, one of the (few remaining) good things about the U.S.:

I've purchased at least USD $75,000 worth of sim parts from all over the world (FDS, CPFlight, Sismo, FSC, ACE, Flight Illusion, Simparts.de, etc. etc.) and haven't paid a penny of import duty on any of it. Yeah, I've paid a few small brokerage fees ($10-30), but not one cent of actual customs duty.

I'll probably jinx myself with that post, but my eyes open wide when I read what percantage some European builders have paid for import duty on their sim stuff! 

[ChrisKLAS]

dupe

[fdspcos]

As a point of interest. Several of these stories in teh early years stopped our dealins with UPS.
They call every quarter trying to do business with us and we promptly get off the phone.
The nickel and diming they do is the real money maker and in the end, many times the customer would be upset with my company.
In a pinch.. we use Fedex if we have to race something anywhere. Post is still the best value and least amount of $$$.
For US-Canada shipments of smaller packages handled by post they charge $5CAD!
In Efe's case, not much you can do once that ball is rolling we have found at least.
PC

[Efe]

Thanks for the information and support guys. The infamous box from CPFlight arrived today, packaged nicely to protect. Really nice communication and customer relations from Claudio and Paolo! Still no news from the customs clearance company. So I have completed the first order for the 'pit, the main pedestal modules. Now, its time for production of the base, shell and MIP & pedestal stands. But probably after mid-April as we have a big trade show that will keep me busy till then and I personally want to oversee design and production on the various parts.

By the way, the local online flight community here have started a young pilots support group for training and knowledge sharing purposes and I've suggested the one of the side slots next to the new location of my pit as a suitable area for the training documents that are collected or donated.

[jskibo]

Very nice, glad it all worked out for you in the end.

I'm just waiting on my Dual EFIS and MCP from the guys at CPFlight now.

Post some pics when you start building!

[Efe]

So the first two parts of my MIP from Vitor Amaral in Spain arrived at the office just a few minutes ago. Unfortunately the new building isn't ready yet (looks like another week) and I don't want to risk unpacking there while the commotion of preparing it for the big move is going on. I did happen to open it up and take a peek, very nicely packed... can't wait to tear it open soon! Till then, I have to make due with the excitement within.

[jackpilot]

HéHé!
FUN.