1920X1080 short throw projector???

[astron]

Hey Guys, its funny how the beginning topic turns into something else, LOL   but that happens all the time,and in this case isnt such a bad thing, i think the point now to focus on,is how can we improve upon the projectors that we have now.  As the projectors we would really like are not available to us yet anyway.  So atleast ive learned a few things from this,that yes i can reduce the image size,and it looks a lot better to my eyes,and also may be a workable solution,for better visuals if it all fits around the sim like i hope it will, for now since i have my large sceens already setup and that took sometime,i think i will leave them in place and atleast setup the sim and fly in front of them for a while to get the feel for the whole thing, we already know that the look of the image is not as good at this size,but i also want to feel the immersion factor of the screens for a while,and after i do that,and know what its like, then i may very well proceed to build a tighter screen around the sim therefore being able to reduce the image size for a better quality picture, but also be able to see if the immersion factor and other things will be the same as the larger setup.  anyway this has been a great discussion guys,and feel free to keep it going if you like, and maybe in the near future i will have some more info if we build the sized down version.
take care for now,Tom

[XOrionFE]

Tom,

Looking at your posts about reducing the size I am somewhat grinning.   I always said that the pixelation really isnt that noticable to me and although not as great as an LCD screen I could live with my setup.   Well.......

My Diameter is 12ft and therefore my screen height is 4 ft and width of each section is only about 80".   My projector throw is only 3.5'.   Therefore my eyepoint to screen is close like what you are testing Tom.   My windows are filled up with the view and unless I stick my head up against the windows all I really see is projected view...no room.  This is what I always thought that moving closer gives better resolution than further away so I kept mine as close as I could while still filling the windows with view.  I believe that for a 737 at least and todays technology, 12 ft is the optimal diameter of the screens.      Don Harrison and a few others can attest to the view that have been over.  Here is my diagram of my setup.   This says 195 degree and I did adjust to 210 degree but still pretty close to same dimensions.

Scott

[Nat Crea]

We're on the wrong side of the world?!!!!   Hmmmmm....I think its the other way around Nat! 

Scott

I thought it was normal to live upside down? Am I the only one?

Nat

[Maurice]

My Diameter is 12ft and therefore my screen height is 4 ft and width of each section is only about 80".   My projector throw is only 3.5'.   Therefore my eyepoint to screen is close like what you are testing Tom. 

Well, now I understand why you were not too bothered with the resolution. It all makes sense now...your projections must be quite a bit sharper than mine since my projectors are about 6' from the wall. That's almost twice the distance and the pixels must be twice as large.

I think I can see a new screen in my future unless I learn to live with what I have. But knowing that it is just a question or replacing the screen, the tempation may just be too much. 

Maurice

[XOrionFE]

Why not take a piece of poster board (2x4 sheet) and suspend it from a stick going from top of shell to top of your screen so you can move it back and forth adjusting the distance away from the shell to see how the projection would look at varied distances to see if better for you or not.   you could do it on each side and out in front.

In fact, I get tired of hunting for the ok button with the mouse sometimes so I have a drop down screen that drops really close into the center projector outside the shell so I can see things up close when adjusting settings.  Then i pull on a string and it flips up out of the way.   I should take a picture when I have a moment.  Works pretty slick.

Anyway...I digress...

[Maurice]

o I have a drop down screen that drops really close into the center projector outside the shell so I can see things up close when adjusting settings.  Then i pull on a string and it flips up out of the way.   I should take a picture when I have a moment.  Works pretty slick.

Anyway...I digress...

Very smart idea there Scott. This has annoyed me to no end as well. And I was just going to do what you suggested re. trying to put a temporary screen closer to the projectors and see how things improve.

Thanks,
Maurice

[XOrionFE]

Here are some quick pics:

[Maurice]

Ingenious! Simple but very effective

Maurice

[XOrionFE]

The rope comes through the back of the cockpit to a hook just over my shoulder.   I am a real lazy ass!   Especially when I have a pint in my hand 

Scott

[Maurice]

The rope comes through the back of the cockpit to a hook just over my shoulder.   I am a real lazy ass!   Especially when I have a pint in my hand 

Scott

You drink & fly!!!!! Shame on you 

Maurice 

[Maurice]

OK, this is what I found. I placed a sheet of drywall at the end of the shell nose, so as close as practical without suspending the sheet closer to the front window. This reduced the projection distance by about 1/3. Strangely enough, I did not even have to re-focus the projector as the text in a Windows Explorer window was about as sharp as I have ever seen.

Pros:
The image was noticeably brighter and with more contrast even though the drywall was neither primed nor painted
Pixel size was noticeably smaller
Image seemed slightly sharper as far as I could tell but not as sharp as I was hoping

Cons:
Even though the pixels were much smaller, they were just as visible since they were closer
With the closer image, I felt more like I was looking at a screen rather than at the outside world. My eyes needed to refocus to look at the closer screen compared to the further screen. Whether that would be true or not if I was completely surrounded by the closer screen is yet to be determined.
There was a taxiway sigh that was too fuzzy to read on my original screen and when I placed the drywall at that spot, I still could not read the sign but it had more contrast.

My conclusion:
If I had to rebuild the screen because my basement burned down (Hmmm!!!! I wonder...  ) then I would definitely build it closer like Scott did.

But at this point, I don't think it's worth it for me to go to the trouble of tearing down that huge wall and starting over. In a year or two...maybe 

Maurice

[astron]

Hey Scott,pretty cool invention there,you have some Rube Goldberg in you too. And i can see how your image may be a little clearer then mine now, as my screen is 96" across so even bringing down to 80" is going to be some improvement, and bringing it down to 68" was a big improvement in my opinion, yes if you look real hard for the pixels you can see them but it certainly cleared things up quite a bit,to where i could be happy with it.,a couple other things i did yesterday was to play with some of the settings in the projector,one thing i noticed was if i took the brightness down a little the pixels were even less noticeable,they seem to be more noticeable in the lighter colors mainly white, it seems the pixels have a dark edge around them.    But either way we will get setup and have fun and play with those things down the line, my main thing now is i just want to get in the sim and do some flying.

Tom

[Sudden81]

Perhaps this is what we are looking for?

http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/projector-sinovatech/product-detaileoqnHvyOMbRI/China-Extra-Short-Throw-Full-HD-1080p-Projector-HD1080-F-HQV-.html

Or it might have to be even better throw ratio?

Wonder if anyone besides Ivar who experimented with lenses and sverical mirrors?

[Olafson]

This topic is already an oldy, but I just starting my project and have build an 200 FOV screen with a radius of 2,40m with 3 projectors.

Now The screen is finished I am looking for the right projector.  It seems that it will be the B&Q mw814st.

What I wonder now is that (the issue of this topic) FSC in Italy does provide 1920x1080 projectors. I think they are not ST, and they have also not enough space in their simulator how they builded it.

Is this a costum made projector or something??

Somebody knows?

Here is the link of the specification, please go to one of the last sheets where the projector isillustrated.
http://www.flightsimulatorcenter.com/shop_manuali.aspx?codice=859210&tipo=1

[ivar hestnes]

Thats a projector made by projectiondesign in Norway. Very high quality, and most of their projectors have several lens options. But it is not in reach for most homebuilder budgets 

[Olafson]

Thats a projector made by projectiondesign in Norway. Very high quality, and most of their projectors have several lens options. But it is not in reach for most homebuilder budgets 

Do you know what price these projectors costs approx?

[ivar hestnes]

No idea of the price for this one.
But it is professional grade items, and pricing is according to that.

Link to the manufacturer and the F12.
http://www.projectiondesign.com/products/f12-series

[Olafson]

Perhaps this is what we are looking for?

http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/projector-sinovatech/product-detaileoqnHvyOMbRI/China-Extra-Short-Throw-Full-HD-1080p-Projector-HD1080-F-HQV-.html

Or it might have to be even better throw ratio?

Wonder if anyone besides Ivar who experimented with lenses and sverical mirrors?

Somebody knows if someone tried this projector. Or know this is some good option?

It looks like it comes from China.......

[clayton4115]

hi all

here are some more short throw high definition projectors

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/100727/211383706/1080p-short-throw-projectors.html

[Olafson]

hi all

here are some more short throw high definition projectors

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/100727/211383706/1080p-short-throw-projectors.html

Thanks Clayton,

But I hav e already purchased 3 beamer, the B&Q MW814ST. The short throw HD beamer where must too expensive.

See my next post/reply to Ivar.

[Olafson]

No idea of the price for this one.
But it is professional grade items, and pricing is according to that.

Link to the manufacturer and the F12.
http://www.projectiondesign.com/products/f12-series

I have had a quotation of this beamer but there are two problems with it:

1. Price : €. 9500,00/ beamer. Lens €. 1500,00/lens. And I need three of them!!! (you can buy half of your 737 cockpit of this amount)
2. The throw is not short enough for a screen setup with radius 2,40 meter. Then you need more height so the beamer can positioned on approx 2,90m and project under need the other, so they are crossing each other.

[Flying_Fox]

hi all

here are some more short throw high definition projectors

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/100727/211383706/1080p-short-throw-projectors.html

Projectors look very affordable, however with this resolution FSX setup definitely requires three top-end  PCs just for visuals. If  I didn't have my projectors already, I would think about those ones. Would be interesting to see somebody's report about this projector even if it's a single one.

Nick

[Maurice]

Projectors look very affordable, however with this resolution FSX setup definitely requires three top-end  PCs just for visuals. If  I didn't have my projectors already, I would think about those ones. Would be interesting to see somebody's report about this projector even if it's a single one.

Nick

I would quite agree here. The images might be sharper, but watching a slide show would kind of damper the joy of seeing sharp images  . I don't think the current PC technology would be sufficient for smooth frame rates at that resolution especially with 3 undocked views.

However, if you are rich enough to afford Wideview, then this would be amazing (Hey Nat, how about it? it's only another 3K or so 

Maurice

[Olafson]

Projectors look very affordable, however with this resolution FSX setup definitely requires three top-end  PCs just for visuals. If  I didn't have my projectors already, I would think about those ones. Would be interesting to see somebody's report about this projector even if it's a single one.

Nick

I would quite agree here. The images might be sharper, but watching a slide show would kind of damper the joy of seeing sharp images  . I don't think the current PC technology would be sufficient for smooth frame rates at that resolution especially with 3 undocked views.

However, if you are rich enough to afford Wideview, then this would be amazing (Hey Nat, how about it? it's only another 3K or so 

Maurice

Beamers look nice but I am not very happy with cheap chinese products. Normaly beamers in short throw with 1080p are expensive.

But I do not think the hardware must be a problem to run the 3 hd beamers. I have a setup witch is suitable for smooth picture and high frame rates with 3 hd 1080p beamers or LCD screens.

This is my setup:
?  1x Intel i7-2600K (4x 3400Mhz, 4x 256 kB L2-Cache) processor (overclocked naar 4.7 MHz)

?  1x Corsair Cooling Hydro Series H60 CPU cpu-cooler

?  1x Corsair Dominator 8GB DDR3 1600 Quad-kit 8-8-8-24 (2x 4GB Kit) geheugen

?  1x ASUS Sabertooth P67 Rev 3.0 socket 1155 mainboard

?  3x ASUS Nvidia ENGTX580 1536MB DDR5 PCI-E 4x videokaart (t.b.v. 3x 24"LCD of 3x HD Beamer)

?  1x OCZ Vertex3, TRIM 240GB SATA600 SSD solid state disk (t.b.v. Windows 7 en FSX)

?  1x WD1002FAEX 4.2/64/7200 hardeschijf (t.b.v. FSX Scenery, Data en Backup)

?  1x Lian-Li PC-A70FB Big Tower systeemkast

?  1x Antec TruePower High Current 1200W SLI-Ready 4x PCI-E voeding

?  1x ASUS SATA DVD/CD/RW speler



?  1x Intel i7-2500K (4x 3300Mhz, 4x 256 kB L2-Cache) processor

?  1x Corsair Dominator 8GB DDR3 1600 Quad-kit 8-8-8-24 (2x 4GB Kit) geheugen

?  1x ASUS Sabertooth P67 Rev 3.0 socket 1155 mainboard

?  2x ASUS Nvidia ENGTS450 1024MB DDR5 PCI-E 2x videokaart (t.b.v. 4x MIP LCD beeldschermen)

?  1x OCZ Vertex3, TRIM 120GB SATA600 SSD solid state disk (t.b.v. Windows 7 en Prosim737)

?  1x Lian-Li PC-A70FB Big Tower systeemkast

?  1x Antec TruePower High Current 600W SLI-Ready2x PCI-E voeding

?  1x ASUS SATA DVD/CD/RW speler 

[jackpilot]

This is what I consider high end PCs!!!