Metal Working advice on B737 Cockpit

[fsaviator]

Hello all,
almost time to go home and get back to work on the Sim.  Some changes have resulted in my having to relocate the current build, so I now have the chance to rewind and take different approach to things.

I'm looking to build a metal framework using square and rectangular tube steel to support sim, as well ensure it fits in the area's available to me.

My question is, I drew up the initial sketches using 2" x 2" (50cm x 50cm) diameter tubing.  Is this overkill?

I tend to over-engineer things so it's possible.  Does anyone have any experience with this approach, and if I could get by with 1.5" x 1.5".



Thanks,

Warren

[fordgt40]

Suggest you get a scrap length of tube to equal your longest length and then try to bend it.  I think that you will find that 1 inch sq will be fine, providing that the bottom lengths are "tied in" and assuming that your sim is static ie not on a motion base

David

[jackpilot]

With steel tubing, wheight may be an issue and 1" would definitely do.
Alu is more expensive but nearly as stiff and much lighter to manage.
Check with Carlos, he will tell you more.

Check page two of :
http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=1165.25

Edit: the main isuue is the weight of the overheads, besides that it can be fairly light.
Rigidity can be achieved with alu skin panels startegically located and  which do not have to look good, being outside.

[astron]

Hey Warren, i have to tell you i work with metal all day here, and  when i built my 737 sim,i finaly gave into the fact that sometimes your just better off to get some things from other people, also i didnt want to spend the next 5 years building another sim,i just wanted to fly.

I have one of petes new shells ,and i have to tell you for the money you just cant beat it,its all built in aluminum panels precision bent ,snaps together in a day fits perfect and is light weight,  i couldnt have built this myself for any less then i bought it for ,and it saved me a huge amount of time,in the building process, i put my building skills into things that i knew i could do and would truly save me some money in the long run,  i built from scratch the throttle quad,the control columns,the center ped box,the rudder pedal assemblys, all in the time it would probably taken me to build and design a nice looking shell.

But i do understand if you just want to try and build this part of the sim also, aluminum is for sure the way to go,you will probably also need a tig welder to be able to weld any kind of aluminum, and also make the right choice for your aluminum, 5052 is a bendable aluminum and also easily weldable, you really need some various metal working equiptment,to do this part of the build, dont mean to try and shoot down your dreams,just some other options are available,

take care ,Tom

[jackpilot]

I am not sure Warren has room enough for the FDS shell which I agree is the best modular pro system.

[fsaviator]

You guys are the heat!  A lot of great suggestions.

My idea came from Carlos' work.  In fact he sent me a ton of pictures and sketches.  He used 2" square tubing.

So, first, I'll be welding most of the joins, with the exception of the horizontal to vertical joins.  They will be male to female tubing secured by bolts for the rigidity.

As jack says, I don't have the room for an FDS shell, which would be my first choice.  My room is 11 inches to narrow, and about 6 inches to short in the length.  Height is good.  With that said, I have to "scrunch" (technical term) the width, to the term of removing the jumpseat and the bulkhead behind it.  That gave me the width to keep the circuit breakers, but offset the door a bit.  No issues there. 

Depth-wise, I can capture the full pit up to the bulkhead and still keep the relief necessary for the projectors.





So, I'm left to my own framework/design.  What I have currently works, but it's bulky and made out of 2x4s and MDF.  I plan to use the fact that I have to move it for about a year to improve on the design, and at the same time give me a better solution for mounting the MIP, which is currently backed by MDF.




Weight is an issue as it will be up in my bedroom for a year (not on the concrete basement floor).  I won't be skinning it, as I can't get around it from the outside, so I can't see it.  I can get a lot of weight savings by going 1x1 inch as opposed to 2x2 inch.  besides, I believe I may be able to actually bend 1x1 to for a curve, so I can alleviate some of the 45 degree joins.

-Interior sidewalls and linings will fiberglass, down the road.
-Subfloor will hold the yoke/rudder workings (as it currently does).
-new screen will be curved and about 100 degrees FOV (still debating whether to use all three projectors or just two).

Thanks again guys, and always open to more suggestions.

Warren

[Joe Lavery]

Hi Warren,

I think the guys have covered most of your questions; but perhaps to reinforce what's been said, the frame in my avatar picture is 1" square and plenty strong enough. My only proviso is that it should be braced diagonally at the corners or it will flex from side to side. Not a big issue if you're going to cover it because the panels will brace it for you. 

Cheers

Joe.

[fsaviator]

hi heres another thought since you are welding it, and as you say space it tight, how are you going to move it at a later date since the structure will be solid I doubt you could get out of a standard size door or window..

A consideration maybe to weld a smaller diameter bar into the inside of the final size I think its called a step then these Feet/Steeps/Sleeves could slide into each other I would think you would still get the strength by making these quite long  but it would then be modular easing the future relocation of said sim just my two cents worth

Bernard

That is exactly what I meant by male/female connections.  You described it better than me.  It will slide over the smaller diameter piece that is welded to the horizontal uprights and be secured by a bolt.  that way I can disassemble it to move it through the door.

Hi Warren,

I think the guys have covered most of your questions; but perhaps to reinforce what's been said, the frame in my avatar picture is 1" square and plenty strong enough. My only proviso is that it should be braced diagonally at the corners or it will flex from side to side. Not a big issue if you're going to cover it because the panels will brace it for you. 

Cheers

Joe.

Sounds good Joe.  I'll keep it in mind.  I think I will go with the one inch square.

I'll work so more Sketchup and see what i get.

Thanks all,

Warren

[carlos hermida]

Hi Warren,

   Nice project, will look great when finished !!

  Just one thing, the original scketches was projected using 5 cm x 5 cm for all parts but when I saw this square tubes in real I decided to do this changes below as I think it was too much strong and heavy just to hold  fwd and aft overhead. Below is my comment about it posted on my sim progress post...

  "It is very strong and I can use the seat handle without any move of the structure. It is very solid. I used 5 cm x 5 cm square tube to screw the MIP and 5 cm x 3 cm retangular tube for overhead contour and back legs."

   In my personal opinion if you use 1.5" x 1.5" you will have probabily the same strong structure but with less weight that sometimes makes diference...

   Carlos

[Aerosim Solutions]

My sim frame is all steel, 1" square tubing for the base and MIP supports then 3/4" square for the cantilevered overhead section. Weight is not a problem at all, I can lift it off the ground alone no problem and it really is a rigid structure! It has a 16mm MDF floor base.

Cheers Gwyn

[fsaviator]

Carlos, your build looks rock solid.  As I mentioned I'm taking my cues from you here as you are taking the direction I want to go.  I think I'll go down to 1" x 1" and tie it all in to the base.

My sim frame is all steel, 1" square tubing for the base and MIP supports then 3/4" square for the cantilevered overhead section. Weight is not a problem at all, I can lift it off the ground alone no problem and it really is a rigid structure! It has a 16mm MDF floor base.

Cheers Gwyn

Thanks for the info Gwyn.  I'm with you, I'm going 1"x1".  It's good to hear your details on the base, as I was going to stick with 2"x2" for the base, but will now go with 1"x1" there also.  My concern there was not so much the weight bearing, but handling the forces generated by horizontal pressure on the rudder pedals.

Looking forward to getting on with building.  I'm thinking by the time I get home, take some vacation, and get supplies, I should be rolling about August.

Thanks again everyone!

Warren

[tinker27]

Hi don't suppose anyone has a sketch up file of this as  struggling

Thanks

Neil