FDS shell projector mount ?

[Nick1150]

Hi there,

I was wondering what kind of projectors would fit on the FDS nose section. Which is the best option for us with an FDS shell installed. I am in the process of searching for the best possible triple projectors setup. I am planning to mount the projectors on the shell roof and not on the ceiling. The distance from the nose section roof to the future curved screen is about 2 meters Long.

Any experience and possible make and model would be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Nick

[Nat Crea]

Nick,

I would HIGHLY recommend that you DONT mount projetors to the Shell Roof.
I know it sounds like a good idea in theory, but every time you touch or bump
your Sim, the Image will shake.
It only takes a fraction of a millimeter movement at the projector to translate to
an annoying image shake...even motion sickness LOL.

Nat

[blueskydriver]

Nick,

You have about 6ft, is that from the very back of the FDS shell or from your eye point, which should be about center of the throttle assy position? If you measure from the throttle assy and you got 6ft great, if not your images are going to be smaller; thus, you will have to for sure get wide screen projectors and likely know that already.

However, that also means you will want very short projector mounts as well. The closer you are to the screen, the higher up the screen you must be to get the horizon line right. You just cannot angle the projector up because the programs for screen imaging/blending do not allow projection correction functions. You will find that some of us choose to edge butt instead of blending because you lose too much on the sides, even though we could easily turn blending on.

As for your screen, what are you using, if you haven't mentioned it? Personally, suggest you buy the screen from the place I got mine and just make a curved frame from PVC tube. It will take a few days to put it all up as opposed to building curved wall, painting it and etc.

The projectors that are most common: BenQ's and Mitsubishi. You need to read the postings over on FDS that Ivar, Nat and I had going, see here:

http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=1340.msg9988;topicseen#new

http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4209

http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4302

And this is from Maurice:

http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=1340.msg9988;topicseen#new

Finally, haven't checked into BenQ, but remember Maurice having a helluva time finding his last needed one...

BSD

Edit: you need to look at that post of mine about throw distances as BenQ and Mits (the ones most of us use) are equal. Throw distance, lumens, contrast ratios and bulb life are the biggest things too look for when buying projectors. Also, which screen corrector you using with the needed Matrox Triple Head to Go Digital unit?

[Nick1150]

Nick,

I would HIGHLY recommend that you DONT mount projetors to the Shell Roof.
I know it sounds like a good idea in theory, but every time you touch or bump
your Sim, the Image will shake.
It only takes a fraction of a millimeter movement at the projector to translate to
an annoying image shake...even motion sickness LOL.

Nat

Hi Nat,

I totally understand your point, but please with all the respects let me disagree 

In my, until 2 weeks earlier, cockpit I have mounted a Hitatchi Ultimate short throw on the base, which together with the 4 bass shakers I have installed below the base, gave me that "motion sickness" feeling on landing and take off, making the screen vibrate a little when heavy bass sounds were played. This made the outside visualisation vibrate too, giving a more realistic feeling to my sim.

So yes shaking image is what I am after... To be honest I have no other choise than to mount on the shell since my ceiling is inclined, and it is difficult to allign 3 projectors. After trying though, I found out that this rumbling feeling is very realistic.

[Nick1150]

Nick,

You have about 6ft, is that from the very back of the FDS shell or from your eye point, which should be about center of the throttle assy position? If you measure from the throttle assy and you got 6ft great, if not your images are going to be smaller; thus, you will have to for sure get wide screen projectors and likely know that already.

However, that also means you will want very short projector mounts as well. The closer you are to the screen, the higher up the screen you must be to get the horizon line right. You just cannot angle the projector up because the programs for screen imaging/blending do not allow projection correction functions. You will find that some of us choose to edge butt instead of blending because you lose too much on the sides, even though we could easily turn blending on.

As for your screen, what are you using, if you haven't mentioned it? Personally, suggest you buy the screen from the place I got mine and just make a curved frame from PVC tube. It will take a few days to put it all up as opposed to building curved wall, painting it and etc.

The projectors that are most common: BenQ's and Mitsubishi. You need to read the postings over on FDS that Ivar, Nat and I had going, see here:

http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=1340.msg9988;topicseen#new

http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4209

http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4302

And this is from Maurice:

http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=1340.msg9988;topicseen#new

Finally, haven't checked into BenQ, but remember Maurice having a helluva time finding his last needed one...

BSD

Edit: you need to look at that post of mine about throw distances as BenQ and Mits (the ones most of us use) are equal. Throw distance, lumens, contrast ratios and bulb life are the biggest things too look for when buying projectors. Also, which screen corrector you using with the needed Matrox Triple Head to Go Digital unit?

Thanks BSD for the info

I must admit I was amazed with melnato's setup. WOW that is a real PRO setup, but in a PRO price too.

Actually I was thinking a more Ivar Hestnes setup with +/- 200 degrees.

The distance of 6ft is calculated from the horizintal "triangle" that is created on the roof of the back of shell which is perfect for mounting the 3 projectors. The FDS shell on the top back creates an horizontal shelf. I am guessing that it is somewhere above the pedestal, but I cannot be sure since my base is not ready yet and therefore all gear is not mounted to be sure where everything sits in its place.

I can see that Mitsubishi has great choices in short throw projectors. I will take a look in their site for more info

Finally, my screen will be build from simple plasterboards, a permanenet built that is. The room is as follows in the 3 following pics. There will be build a curved screen, leaving the shell in the middle.









This is where I am right now... waiting for my new cockpit base...

[ivar hestnes]

As Nat is writing above, it is not advisable to install the projectors on the shell. Vibration on your projectors will significantly reduce the lifespan of the expensive bulbs. Might turn out as an expensive experience.

If you still want to have the vibrations there, remember if the projectors change its position just a little bit now and then, your warping and blending will be affected on the screen.

Frankly speaking, its a very bad idea to have them installed on your shell.

Professional simulators are designed very sturdy, and projectors is properly bolted in place to avoid the image shaking. Also these projectors are designed for heavy use and some vibrations, which is not the case for consumer products.

[Maurice]

Fully agree with Nat & Ivar as well. Very bad idea. If you are not able to mount the projectors on the ceiling because ceiling is inclined as you say, then why not attach a flat level base hanging from the inclined ceiling and placing the projectors right side up on top of the base or upside down below the base?

This would be a much better & actually easier solution than trying to mount the projectors on top of the FDS shell. As Ivar said as well, shaking a projector will not be very healthy for the bulbs and you may think that seeing the image shaking on the take off or landing roll is a good thing, but it will drive you nuts if the image is shaking when you are just cruising along in calm air  .

Maurice

[blueskydriver]

Nick,

Okay, now that I see what you're after, you need to take heed from us and not mount to the shell. I have two huge subs under my platform and a butt kicker attached to the Ipeco seat, and it is a lot of vibration. However, nothing shakes the projectors, except if the door to the room gets shut to hard and knocks the alignment out a hair...it really sucks!

Do what Maurice suggest or the mounts I have are made to angle mount, but are 8 inch long, you would need the extra distance to complete the angle anyway, so you should look at those. I'll send you a PM on it later. In any case, do not mount to the shell...

Finally, I saw a prgram the other day that would make the visual shake effect to the VC cockpt, so it might be possible to use it to get the micro-movement effect you sick...uh, I mean seek! Will try to find it for you.

BSD

[Nick1150]

Hi guys,

In my life I have learned to listen to more experienced than me. So if you say, not on the shell, then ok... NOT on the shell. So I am changing my route here, trying already to find the way to mount on the ceiling instead of the shell.

Thanks all for the advices which are highly appreciated.

Will report soon,

Best regards

Nick

[ivar hestnes]

Very wise decision Nick 
We are here to help you, and even if it changed your basic plans, our input is with the best intentions.

With projectors in the ceiling, you can put lots of buttshakers instead.

I had my projectors hanging on a T-bar which was attached to my shell when I had it on a airshow a couple years ago. It worked really well. But the vibrations was absolutely there when people were moving inside the shell. So it was not an option for the simulator at home.

[Nick1150]

Hi to all,

After almost a month of everyday work on my project, I am finaly flying!

Of course I adopted your advice about the ceiling mount of the projectors.

In the following youtube video (near the middle) you can see the three wagon rows that I used, together with three ordinary projectors mount, to prepare my future triple projectors setup. I am currently using my Hitatchi AW250 ultimate short throw projector, but I am in the way to get 3 Mitsubishi projectors as advised in the near future, hopefully after my overhead...

Home cockpit 737 in Athens

Thanks for the help,

Nick

[Flying_Fox]

Hi Nick,

Amasing, how fast you put it all together! Looks great  - and very neat and clean.

I am still trying to figure modular design of my base - I want to split the base into  at least 5 blocks  under the base floor.  with my real 737 throttle (don't have it yet - still being interfaced) fitting in between blocks.

Could you share your particular base installation dimensions:

From the front of FDS shell to the end of MIP (the edge of the light panels sticking out of the MIP bottom).
From the front of FDS shell to the center of the yoke column
From the front of FDS shell to the back end of the throttle "column"
From the front of FDS shell to the front edge of the pedestal (past the fire handles unit)
What is the exact length/width of your throttle column?

Thanks,
Nick

[Nick1150]

Hi Nick,

I will be more than glad to measure your info. I am at work right now. I will post tonight all info required.

Regards,

Nick

[Flying_Fox]

Hi Nick,

I will be more than glad to measure your info. I am at work right now. I will post tonight all info required.

Regards,

Nick

Great! Thank you very much Nick!
Couple more to verify:

From the back end of FDS shell to the backend of pedestal.
From the back end of FDS shell to the end of J-rails.
From the video it looks like your base is exactly the size of FDS shell (244 x 213 cm) is that correct?

[Nick1150]

This is an answer from another thread...

Hi Nick(Flying fox),

Please allow me to give you the measurements in another thread so we cannot be offline here. I remember I have created another thread when I ordered my FDS nose section for the same reason....

Here it is http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=2165.0

I have posted the measurements there