Image degradation with warping software

[Maurice]

For a long time now, I suspected that warping software (any brand) seriously degrades the image quality. So I was testing the FlyElise software which allows you to warp the entire desktop (at least in the Pro version) and I must say that the image degradation is significant when the warping is enabled as you can see in the enclosed pictures taken from exactly the same position & zoom factor.

So for me at least, I wish I had gone with 3 flat screens instead of one curved screen as I think the overall image quality would be a lot better than on a curved screen.

It may be too late for me and for anyone with a curved screen already but if you are still not decided about what to do regarding the screen, you may want to seriously consider using 3 flat screens instead of one curved screen. It may be more difficult when it comes to lining up the projectors but the improved image quality is well worth it I think.

I think it would also be possible to use flat screens and warping software just to get edge blending if that is what you really want. In that case, the warping would be very minimal and almost non-existent since the image is not distorted and the only image correction would be the blending correction. Using warping software with flat screens would also make butting the edges much easier with minimal effect on overall image quality.

Anyway, if I ever get over my current state of utter laziness when it comes to sim improvements (very unlikely), I may try that in the future myself. What will really tick me off is if the results do not match my expectations; that & having to listen to my wife who would be telling me I told you to leave things alone 

Maurice

[Sean]

But you're showing pictures of text here, which is hardly a comparison with the images produced by a flight sim.

I'm not certain 3 flat screens would yeald the results you desire.

Sean

[blueskydriver]

Hi Maurice,

When looking at your pics, I can say that what you see is true, but I can also say there is some type of error going with your warping. I am using Nthusim right now and I always start it before FSX; however, if I switch from full screen to Window mode I see exactly what you're seeing...distortions.

If I switch back to full screen no more issues. Although, in the past, Nthusim had the distortions remain even after going back to fullscreen. Therefore, when you show a window in warp view you are/will get distortions, but what happens when you look at pop-up windows or the menu line of FSX when in fullscreen mode? If there are no distortions, then this is just a window mode issue.

John

[Maurice]

But you're showing pictures of text here, which is hardly a comparison with the images produced by a flight sim.

I'm not certain 3 flat screens would yeald the results you desire.

Sean

If text is fuzzier when it is warped, it makes sense to me that everything else would also be fuzzier including what bothers me most in my sim which is that I cannot read taxiway signs until I am almost on top of them and I cannot see any planes still in the runway until I have already landed almost on top of them as well.

But although I am 100% sure the overall image will be sharper with flat screens, I'm not at all sure that I would like the overall appearance of flat screen vs. curved screens. Curved screens are definely more natural I think and that is why I'm so ambivalent right now, otherwise I would switch for sure.

Maurice

[Maurice]

John,

I wasn't concerned about distortion at wall. In my experiment with FlyElise, I did not spend much time squaring up the image to match the screen. All I am concerned about is the absolute definite loss of sharpness of everything I could see. I showed pictures of text but that applied to everything.

But as I said to Sean, I'm still not sure I would prefer flat screens over curved screen. I wish there was an easy way to compare but there isn't.

Maurice

[blueskydriver]

Maurice,

Yes, there are a lot of things that seem to be inherent with distortion and sharpness in all warping programs, as you're seeing it in FlyElise and I see it in Nthusim, but I guess that's the nature of these programs...

As for testing it, could you just use a bunch of white poster boards, taped together from the back side, and place those in front of your curve screen using a simple framing somehow? It wouldn't be the exact eye distance, but you might be able to ascertain your ideas somewhat and at least be able to see for yourself.

John

[Maurice]

Maurice,

As for testing it, could you just use a bunch of white poster boards, taped together from the back side, and place those in front of your curve screen using a simple framing somehow? It wouldn't be the exact eye distance, but you might be able to ascertain your ideas somewhat and at least be able to see for yourself.

John

I was actually hoping to read the opinion of someone who has already built a flat screen system. I don't think that a bunch of white poster boards would convince me to switch 
As I said before, I know the image will be sharper but I don't know about the overall effect until I see a full flat screen setup.

By that I mean how do the views line up, especially when banking the airplane or when climbing or descending? Would it still look right under these conditions or would the 3 views not line up properly?
That part is still a mystery to me.

Maurice

[XOrionFE]

CP (aka Firstinflight) may jump in here with an opinion as I know he started with flat screens and changed them to curved once he saw mine.   In fact, I brought this up Friday night when he and Mike Leavy were over and said that I wanted to try changing to flat for all the same reasons you mentioned.   CP said that there is a definite difference in depth perception and immersion factor going from flat to curved.

Scott

[Maurice]

CP said that there is a definite difference in depth perception and immersion factor going from flat to curved.

Scott

I would like to know more about this so I hope CP chimes in on this. I wonder if his flat screens gave him as much field of view as the curved ones. If it did, I'm really curious to understand why depth perception or immersion would be worse with flat screens if you are still totally surrounded by a screen with a sharper image.

I also want to know what I mentioned before...how do the views line up during climbing or descending turns especially. I still think curved screens look generally more 'appealing' than flat screens but I would really like a sharper image if possible but probably not at the expense of depth perception or immersion factor. Wish I had seen his setup before he switched 

Thanks,
Maurice

[Sean]

Ralph from London also has flat screens. I've flown his sim a couple of times and don't recall any problems you suggest Maurice.

I also seem to remember him saying he would be changing to a curved screen sometime in the future, but I'm unsure of the reasons behind that.

However, I think your perceived problem lies more with the inherent low resolutions of projectors compared to monitors, and I'm not certain 3 flat screens without the corrrection software would help in making the taxiway signs etc. any clearer.

Sean

[Maurice]

Ralph from London also has flat screens. I've flown his sim a couple of times and don't recall any problems you suggest Maurice.

I also seem to remember him saying he would be changing to a curved screen sometime in the future, but I'm unsure of the reasons behind that.

However, I think your perceived problem lies more with the inherent low resolutions of projectors compared to monitors, and I'm not certain 3 flat screens without the corrrection software would help in making the taxiway signs etc. any clearer.

Sean

Good to know about Ralph. Hope he chimes in as well. I know that Angus has flown Ralph's sim as well as mine a couple of times and he is going to be visiting me again in a week or two so i'll have a chance to ask him which one he preferred assuming all things were equal aside from curvature.

But as far as what you said about the inherent lower resolution of projectors, you are right but adding warping software only makes matters worse since it compresses and/or expands the image at various points. This is bound to affect the already lower projector resolution so I still think runway signs would be easier to read.

Maurice

[blueskydriver]

Maurice,

Just for curiousity sake, would you take some screen captures or pics at different distances from your taxiway signs, as I want to see if mine are similar to yours. I can read mine, but I guess I never judge them upon distance or other parameters...

John

[Sean]

Put your glasses on!  

[Maurice]

Put your glasses on!  

Sorry but I already wear bifocals with prisms for astigmatism. So I need all the help I can get to see anything 

Maurice

[Maurice]

Maurice,

Just for curiousity sake, would you take some screen captures or pics at different distances from your taxiway signs, as I want to see if mine are similar to yours. I can read mine, but I guess I never judge them upon distance or other parameters...

John

I can try & do that the next time I fly but this may not be a good test since I can't show what it would look like with an unwarped image. It also depends on the particular airport scenery since some add-on airports seem to have bigger and more legible signs.

But I'll see what I can do. It may take a few days because I'm quite busy with family visits these days.

Maurice

[blueskydriver]

Hey Maurice,

Did I ever mention my next door neighbor is selling his house, you should buy it and move in with your Wife and Sim! Imagine the fun that could/would be. I asked Bob, but jobs are the issue for him, I asked Scott and his job doesn't let him to live to far away, so since you're retired, you should have no problems at all. Uh, okay...you would have to apply for Citzenship, move here, become a Wisconsinite, and then live next door too an OCD person like myself!

That shouldn't been hard to do right?

Uh, okay...I just shot myself in the foot didn't I? How about this?

I know this house in Wisconsin that is for sale that might interest you, I don't know much except the neighbor of the house for sale is a really great guy that has similar interest as you. Will that work too make you move?

Okay, cannot say I didn't lie...oops, I mean try! Lol

John

[Sam Llorca]

Hey John, I though you were moving to Sarasota, Florida!!! lol

[Sean]

Hey John, I though you were moving to Sarasota, Florida!!! lol

LOL!

[Maurice]

Hey Maurice,

Did I ever mention my next door neighbor is selling his house, you should buy it and move in with your Wife and Sim! Imagine the fun that could/would be.
John

Do you really think Wisconsin is ready for the two of us living side by side? Heck, I'm not ready to live beside you and get influenced by your madness. I think I would be divorced before the next moon cycle following the move.

As it is already, my wife had a mild coronary when I mentioned I may want to try replacing my curved screen with flat screens. I'd hate to think about what she would say or do if I mentioned I wanted a buy a real cockpit next

So, thanks for the heads up about the house next door but do let me know if a house comes up near a mental institution....would be more convenient when it's time to move there

Maurice

[blueskydriver]

Hey Maurice,

You're right, your wife has tolerated enough already, BUT Karen is into this hobby, so she might rub off on your wife a little bit, or her and Karen have you and I locked up in the nut house together. They might say "you guys wanna be together, fine and here you go, straight jackets for the both of you!".

Maybe, I should erase all this, as it might start a rebellion amongst the women in all the male members lives that are here. Imagine they all gang together and lay down new laws...don't laugh because we all know the women have us by the Ball Bearings!

Hey Sam and Sean,

It is funny and I agree, but what Sam doesn't know is that I am going to move down to his house during the winter months. I've been telling Karen we need to become "Snow Birds", so Florida would be perfect! Let alone that Sam has the Sim there waiting for me...uh, there for me too visit...lol.

As for baby sitting, I can do that, but expect your son's first words to be:

"This is your Captain speaking, today we will be flying on rattle airlines to Baby Haven, Florida and we expect the flight to be bouncy, as well as full of goo-goos and gaa-gaas when we get to cruise altitude of 3.7 feet or as far as we can be tossed into the air by the Southern Daddy Winds. Our flight time will be about 8 hours or so, or as long as it takes for our Chief Pilot's, Senior Captain Dad and First Officer Mom, to return from their daily outings. Finally, my attending first officer is an experienced pilot from the northern part of the US and he is here to make sure I am comfortable, dry & not wet, happy, and continously refreshed with moo cow-cow brand by-products known as milk to civilians. So, sit back and enjoy the flight, and by the way, our in-flight entertainment will be a solid 8 hours of Barney, WHY? Because the First Officer only owns Barney movies from the 1990's so that is what we we'll have to endure; although, if you prefer, he can sing sleepy time songs over the PA, but don't expect him to sound like Frank Sinatra...it's more like a Dead Barney!"

So Sam, I take it my invite to your place has just been cancelled?...lol.

Sean is rotfl-lol!

Maurice is just shaking his head right now and questioning his existance in this hobby because he says he has heard and seen it all, and this is the last straw. He is either going to sell his sim or just crash it into 3 flat screens. No matter though, once he stops laughing he'll realize that insanity is whole lot funnier than being normal anyway! Besides, what is normal? Normal to me is like Aliens are already here sort of normal...no, I don't believe they're here, I believe we are the Aliens, and some are just more spaced-out than others... Look! An Alien Ship just flew over!

Now, back to the regular and usual stuff...anyone seen the new FDS IBL Dimmer Cards yet? Didn't see that segway coming did you?...lol. I plan to buy some because my life needs to be dimmed and brightened from time to time.

John

[Maurice]

The verdict is in: John has totally flipped. This was bound to happen sooner or later so the only question remaining is when will the nice men in white jackets come to pick him up?

And you are right John when you said "Maurice is just shaking his head right now and questioning his existance in this hobby because he says he has heard and seen it all, and this is the last straw. He is either going to sell his sim or just crash it into 3 flat screens" When I see what has happened to you, packing it in before the nice men in white jackets come to pick me up would be the smartest thing I could do if I only had the courage to do so.

Oh well, I always did like the idea of thinking & acting like I'm Napoleon.

Maurice

[Sam Llorca]

LOL John, you'r welcome, remember Florida comes with a tag price, and yes babysitting will cover it. Ho forgot, Florida is canceled!!!