Hacking Seitek AV8R

[ColinB]

I have an old Seitek AV8R which I have dismantled and want to make a throttle quadrant for a single engine prop (Throttle | Prop | Mixture) I also want to add a elevator trim wheel to it and I havn't decided what to use the final Potentiometer for yet. I also have 4 momentary switches, 4 momentary buttons and a twisty knob thing that has 3 positions, position 1 is nothing, positions 2 and 3 are constant on switches.

I hope this makes sense.

The problem I have found is the potentiometers have dead zones at the extremes which are quite large, is there anyway to correct this as I don't want dead zones at all.

Finally could you give me some ideas of what I could use the final Potentiometer for? I usually fly either a Cessna 182 or Beechbaron 58.

[jackpilot]

Did you try to calibrate your pots with FSUIPC.
1)remove all axis assignements in FS (important)
2) calibrate your axix with FSUIPC, You should see a range of values from one end of the pot rotation to the other end, the null zone is usually in the middle if you want one, not at the extremes.
Check carefully FSUIPC manual.
Jack

[ColinB]

yes I did try the calibration, the numbers stop increasing or decreasing before I get through the full movement of the Potentiometer ( I assume I am using the correct term, I am talking about the hardware for controlling the analogue axis movements). This happens at both extremes.

[jskibo]

Probably easier, less frustrating and have more capability buying a Bondar Joystick card (10 bit) for $50, or slightly more for a 12 bit.

[ColinB]

Thing is I wanted to try it with existing equipment before spending money on something I can't do.

[blueskydriver]

Did you calibrate with FSUIPC like Jack suggested? You have to calibrate by turning the knob all the way to one side (click the setting in FSUIPC), and then turn all the way the opposite direction, then click that side for calibration. You will find it in the manual for FSUIPC.

If not, and this Saitek AV8R controller is USB or whatever, you need to go into the actual Winodws OS and calibrate it via the OS interface. It is the same procedure. Although, you could have pots in this controller that are not exactly what you think they are. For example, lets say they turn 1 full 360 degree turn, but the controller or Saitek only set it up or programmed it to read 270 degrees (by using their internal hardware...an inside controller interface card). So, even though you might need it to go 360 degrees, the interface will be fixed for 270 degrees.

The only true way to know is to try calibrating it via Windows OS or FSUIPC. As John Skibo suggests, a joystick card will do just that, it allows just about any button, switch or pot to work like a joystick, but without the constrants of internal hardware controls like you'd find in a brand name joystick or controller.

Try the Windows OS calibration, once that is done, you must calibrate in FSX or FS9 (whichever you're using). Please post back your results; also, please post some pics of your controller and what you have torn apart because seeing things laid out will help others see what you have in mind. This is one of those cases...

John

[KyleH]

We used the same joystick in my brothers PA30 sim.
Calibrating in Windows won't increase the range of the pots. It's the circuitry for reading the pot on the joystick that maxes out the rage at 60º or what ever it is. If you wan't to use that joystick as your interface, you'll need a mechanical solution to get the control to keep the pot in its range.

[ColinB]

Damn it, ok, thanks for that, Should still be able to get use out of it for the Throttle Quadrant at least. Now I need to find a use for what will be the 2 spare potentiometers and still figure out how to use the mode switch, 3 positions but only 2 of them activate a button press.

[jskibo]

Speed Brake?
Flaps?
Idle Cutoff? (2)

All of those are far less than 60 degree throws

Farther along, DU dimming, lighting, etc....

[ColinB]

Thanks, flaps could be an option, only thing is I only ever fly small ga props, biggest being the baron58.

This is my first project so didn't want it to be too complicated... yet.

[jskibo]

Mixture? Prop? But your movement would be limited.

Newer or Modded mooneys have speedbrakes and that's a small GA (Have 50+ hours in our F model)

Trim (again, motion limited, but you can refine it by gearing it 3:1 or 6:1 to acheive the end movement you need.  10 bt or bet resolution should give you enough steps)

Gear any of it in fact if you still want to use it as a joystick device.  Just find the right set of gears that take 60 degrees to 180 or whatever your final ratio is

[ColinB]

hmmm, interesting. Thanks

[ColinB]

question, what sort of gears should I search for on ebay?

[blueskydriver]

Hi Colin,

I know you're new at this and have little funds too start with, so here are some pointers for you:

1. For small bits and other things that can be used as parts for your sim can be had at second hand stores or even at dump sites. I don't know what England is like for rummaging through the dump, but if you can get access, you'd be very suprised at all the things people throw away. Before anyone starts laughing, there are lots of companies that shutdown or liquidate and they cannot or do not have the time to sell everything off; it cost more to sell then it does to dispose of sometimes. Believe me, there are tings that are brand new and in the box that get trashed everyday.

2. Auto junkyards, boat junkyards and old GA aircraft junkyards; you need to find out where they are and inquire about searching for some odds and ends. Most will let you go treasure hunting and charge you accordingly. Although, some might not because of insurance reasons (in the US that is the biggest issue). You just need to ask though. If you can find a GA aircraft junkyard, also known as a boneyard, go there first. You need to get know the owner and tell him what you're looking to do, heck even ask if you could do some odd jobs for him, so you can buy some parts. There are still places like that in the world; they're called good o'le boys and it's all in who you know or get to know, and bartering is still a good form of trade.

3. Make up a list of all the things you need and/or want to get. Make the needs list seperate from the wants list. Why? Because the needs are what you need to at least start flying the sim, and wants are just that...wants. You can get the wants down the road like John (the other John) is suggesting. The point of the lists is to make them up and then post the lists on this very forum and others. There are many builders who have gone through a sim or two, or they have begged, borrowed or stoled...uh, okay not stoled, but you get the idea, so if they see your list they might say "Hey Colin, I'll sell this part, trade that part for something else or maybe, just give it too you for free, but you pay shipping cost". Trust me, the guys and gals that are simmers/builders are a great bunch of people; they're just like real pilots who are willing to help a fellow pilot make it.

4. Search ebay night and day, as well as any other online selling site where cockpit parts can be had. If you find something for sale on ebay, send the seller an email offer for whatever you can afford. Sure, you can bid, but there are times where a particular item has been relisted a few times or more, so the seller might just take your offer after the sale is over. Since ebay does not charge or it only charges a little for no sale ads; the seller just closes the ad and offers to sell it to you off ebay. Although, be warned that you should always use PayPal for the security of your purchase and money.

5. Ask on here if there are "any" builders near you, within easy travel distance, that you can visit and see their sim. Most will be happy to have you visit. You'll get to see a sim, learn a whole a lot from the answers you'll get when you ask all those questions, and you might leave with a few parts because as I said earlier, a lot of builders have extra stuff laying around that they no longer are using and they don't need or want them just going unused. Now, they might give them to you or offer to sell them at a good price, you just have to explain what your trying to do and go from there.

Finally, I am sure money will come along someday and in the future you'll even be at a point where the next guy down the road will be visiting you looking for answers, pointers and parts. Thus, you've heard of karma or pay it forward; well, that is what you must do in return for what someone will soon do for you.

Best Regards,

John

Ps. I understand you have the friend with the C152 sim and/or know others from the club, but my suggestions are still valid, not only for you, but for anyone starting out...

[ColinB]

Thanks Blueskydiver, that was actually coherent compared to the first post you gave me lol

I will have to think about what I want to do and achieve and see what I "need" to accomplish this. At the moment my goal is to just acquire/build the basic control systems so that I don't need to keep using the mouse and keyboard.

The primary goal is, it has to be portable and storable as my simming PC is in the living room with the rest of the family at the moment.

So I guess what I need to start with is a way of controlling the radio stack, lights and master switches. From my understanding a keyboard hack can do this (although not displaying the radio stack details that's not an issue).

I need to get:
- momentary toggle switches and buttons.
- don't know what they are called but the dials to control the radio frequencies.

Ideally it would be:
17 rocker switches (mom/mom)
28 buttons
plus I would like on this same structure a 3 position flap switch (mom/mom/mom) don't know if it exists.
and toggle switches for parking break and gear.

how does that sound for a start?

I will be looking on ebay, I have already found the push buttons I think, I will post a link later to get CB's opinion on them.

[KyleH]

...plus I would like on this same structure a 3 position flap switch (mom/mom/mom) don't know if it exists.

I don't think a switch like that exists. Do you mean a mom/off/mom?

[jskibo]

Might be easier to use a Pot and a joystick card to read the ranges and assign flaps to the passage of a range value

[ColinB]

My main aircraft of choice is the baron 58 which has 3 flap positions, up, app, down. I was hoping to have a switch I could use to mimic that.

[jskibo]

You can do the same with a pot. 737 has nine positions and its done with a pot on the TQ. 

Example

FSUIPC reads value 1024 as up, value 512 as 10 degrees, value 0 as 20 degrees and value -1024 as 30 degrees. Only when you hit or pass those values does the flaps move,  to incrementally with each thinly pot movement..

You can certainly do it with switches, it's just I have never seen a toggle type that would work for you.  Essentially you need a four position switch, off and three on values. Now a 45 degree rotary switch would work, but you would have very little travel between the positions.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rotary-Switch-2-Pole-6-Way-125mA-14-Tag-Make-Before-Break-/130618117763?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item1e69724e83

[KyleH]

An On-Off-On switch would work for the flaps. Just wire the switch to two buttons on the joystic, and a bit of control selection in FSUIPC and it will work.