EICAS screen with hardware standbys

[archen]

Hello guys,
I'm looking for a monitor for the upper and lower eicas. I want to use hardware standbys so I can't fit a 15" monitor.
Any suggestions? It seems hard to find one with good viewing angles.

Thanks!
Anders

[mickc]

Hi Archen

I used the NLT (formerly NEC) NL10276BC24-21F

It's a 12.1" screen, 80 degrees viewing angle in all directions. and is designed to run in Portrait orientation. (most cheaper E-bay screens are less than 40 degrees )

The width is perfect as it fills the full area of the DU frame, and you have no dead/taped areas.

The only issue you may have is when running them for both Upper and lower EICAS, the lower screen will protrude from the bottom of the CDU bay.  I cut a slot in the back of my TQ, and it fits like a glove. (it only protrudes about 45 mm)

They aren't cheap though, looking around $300 each.  And don't bother looking on Alibaba or similar, as they seem to only be knock-offs with weaker specs or factory "refurbished" (dead pixel) units.

Datasheet below
http://www.avnet-embedded.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/Files/Displays_NEW/Colour_TFT/NLT/NL10276BC24-21F.pdf

[archen]

Amazing Mick! Thank you so much!
As you mention, all the monitors I found have so bad vertical view. I'll try to find a dealer of these.

What kind of MIP do you have? Is if possible to let the screen in the lower DU to slide in the other direction? I prefer not to use the saw in the TQ if not absolutely necessary.

Best regards,
Anders

[Sean]

Did you see this thread in the Prosim forum? It discusses the more widely available 10.5" screens, but I ask specifically about the viewing angle. Seems there are good ones out there.

http://prosim737.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=5900

Sean

[archen]

Thanks Sean! I missed that one. I'll take a look at those monitors aswell. But is 10.4" really enough?

Anders

[mickc]

A 10.4" will fit in the CDU bay & MIP with no overhang, but then you will have an inch of screen missing on the left and right.  (assuming you are using 1:1 scale DU frames)

[archen]

Ok, thanks. I prefer 12.1" then. I wanna use the whole DU. I have FDS MIP.

[sluyt050]

I use a 12.1 " LED screen delivered by FDS for the lower EICAS and managed to slide it inwards under my 19" upper EICAS screen. Fits quite nice. Should also be possible with a 12.1" upper EICAS in portrait position I guess. I also have a FDS MIP. Here in the Netherlands I found a 12.1" screen from Samsung with 110°(L/R) and 80°(U/D). It is made for BeeTronics. Ref. http://www.beetronics.nl/12-inch-monitor.

Cheers,

[archen]

Thanks guys!
I've found a Swedish supplier of the NLT monitor. Waiting for a price tag now.

110/80 is a little to small viewing angle for my preferences. Angle of the NLT is actually 160/160 but it's quite expensive too. I hope I will be able to install it like you did Edward.
Made a little 1:1 screen out of paper that I will try tonight to see the fit.

Anders

[ivar hestnes]

Most displays on the market is based on "TN" Technology, and thats why they are cheap. Many TN panels have up to 88/88/88/88 viewing angle, but they have side effects like colour reversal and so on. They are made to be cheap.
Have spent thousands of dollars to figure out what screens to look for and to learn the hard way as I also blew away 3500 usd on 6 brilliant 88/88/88/88 displays, which sadly reversed the colour from one side in portrait. Still brilliant screens well Worth the Money if I want to make a garmin 1000 or two...I might add touch to them, and use them for EFB as they look really cool With AR coating and the image quality is superb  anyone want to buy?? 

What you need for lower eicas is a "IPS" screen (like Ipad), or for NEC/NLT its "SFT" Technology (Different brand, different name).

Some study is required to get the right type of display With no viewing issues in portrait mode.
But the rule: The lcd technology used is more important than the advertised viewing angles. A good screen for portrait use will cost some cash... Expect 4-700 usd each included cables and driver Board.

For NLT displays, the ALR 1400 from Digitalview is normally a good Choice.
To figure out exactly the cables and stuff you need to complete a screen, the datasheet for the display panel must be read. Also the manual for the driver Board. I find NLT and Digitalview to be good Companions, and all the cables and Electronics are provided by these for my displays. But not cheap...

For the one that bothers, you can also make the cables yourself.

[mickc]

The only problem there is that the SFT screens that NLT make are all in widescreen format, so they don't fill the full DU frame, and protrude out further.

I guess is a trade-off either way.

[archen]

Most displays on the market is based on "TN" Technology, and thats why they are cheap. Many TN panels have up to 88/88/88/88 viewing angle, but they have side effects like colour reversal and so on. They are made to be cheap.
Have spent thousands of dollars to figure out what screens to look for and to learn the hard way as I also blew away 3500 usd on 6 brilliant 88/88/88/88 displays, which sadly reversed the colour from one side in portrait. Still brilliant screens well Worth the Money if I want to make a garmin 1000 or two...I might add touch to them, and use them for EFB as they look really cool With AR coating and the image quality is superb  anyone want to buy?? 

What you need for lower eicas is a "IPS" screen (like Ipad), or for NEC/NLT its "SFT" Technology (Different brand, different name).

Some study is required to get the right type of display With no viewing issues in portrait mode.
But the rule: The lcd technology used is more important than the advertised viewing angles. A good screen for portrait use will cost some cash... Expect 4-700 usd each included cables and driver Board.

For NLT displays, the ALR 1400 from Digitalview is normally a good Choice.
To figure out exactly the cables and stuff you need to complete a screen, the datasheet for the display panel must be read. Also the manual for the driver Board. I find NLT and Digitalview to be good Companions, and all the cables and Electronics are provided by these for my displays. But not cheap...

For the one that bothers, you can also make the cables yourself.

Ivar,
Many thanks for sharing your experience. I've done the hard and expensive way on many other things so I know exactly what you are talking about. It takes experience and money go get it perfect so I'm very thankful that you shared your knowledge with us.

I've been looking at NLT today and I'll call a reseller tomorrow to talk about what they can offer me. I'm ready to pay 4-500 usd but if they cost up to 700 I might go in another direction.

I'll have a look at the other brands you named. Thanks!!

The only problem there is that the SFT screens that NLT make are all in widescreen format, so they don't fill the full DU frame, and protrude out further.

I guess is a trade-off either way.

Hi Mick,
Are you sure about that? I looked in the datasheet and it says that the NL10276BC24-21 have 184mm active area. I measured the DU to be around 180mm. I took some measures and both upper and lower screens will have to be in portrait to fit so I guess the choice of monitor gets even more important since the upper EICAS also need to be in portrait. Initially I thought I could mount the upper EICAS in landscape but that will not be possible due to the gear handle and standby's.

/Anders

[ivar hestnes]

Welcome

Link to NLT brochure: http://www.nlt-technologies.co.jp/common/pdf/en/lcdnews_e.pdf
Link to Digitalview: http://www.digitalview.com/
I bought panels + cables from: http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/Pages/index.aspx

Read this Wiki for good information about lcd tech: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD

Its Worth spending some time on digitalview page. But I assume many other Controllers could be used also. Just a matter of studying datasheets...

MickC... you might want to look for older displays. For example NL8060BC31-20. No LVDS though. but maybe you already tried searching in older lcd_news brochures?

[mickc]

Hi Mick,
Are you sure about that? I looked in the datasheet and it says that the NL10276BC24-21 have 184mm active area. I measured the DU to be around 180mm. I took some measures and both upper and lower screens will have to be in portrait to fit so I guess the choice of monitor gets even more important since the upper EICAS also need to be in portrait. Initially I thought I could mount the upper EICAS in landscape but that will not be possible due to the gear handle and standby's.

Thats correct, but the NL10276BC24-21 is not listed as an SFT screen.  The only ones that are listed in the 12.1" size have a 163mm  active area

http://www.nlt-technologies.co.jp/en/products/industrial.html

MickC... you might want to look for older displays. For example NL8060BC31-20. No LVDS though. but maybe you already tried searching in older lcd_news brochures?

A bit late for me   I already have the screens i listed above. (which i can view perfectly from any cockpit position)

[archen]

Welcome

Link to NLT brochure: http://www.nlt-technologies.co.jp/common/pdf/en/lcdnews_e.pdf
Link to Digitalview: http://www.digitalview.com/
I bought panels + cables from: http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/Pages/index.aspx

Read this Wiki for good information about lcd tech: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD

Thanks again Ivar. I'll be collecting some info from those pages before I make a decision. Great links!

Hi Mick,
Are you sure about that? I looked in the datasheet and it says that the NL10276BC24-21 have 184mm active area. I measured the DU to be around 180mm. I took some measures and both upper and lower screens will have to be in portrait to fit so I guess the choice of monitor gets even more important since the upper EICAS also need to be in portrait. Initially I thought I could mount the upper EICAS in landscape but that will not be possible due to the gear handle and standby's.

Thats correct, but the NL10276BC24-21 is not listed as an SFT screen.  The only ones that are listed in the 12.1" size have a 163mm  active area

http://www.nlt-technologies.co.jp/en/products/industrial.html

Mick,
I didn't take notice of that. Although according to this site: http://www.nlt-technologies.co.jp/en/products/industrial.html
neither is NL10276BC24-21F nor NL10276BC24-21 SFT screen. Both is listed as LED.

The only 12.1" listed as SFT seems to be the two monitors with 1280x800 which is wide-screen. Are you sure that your modelnumber is 21F? The SFT screens seems to have 88/88/88/88 in viewing angles. Those 8 degrees is nothing but I wonder how they differ in real life.

[mickc]

Thats right. mine aren't SFT screens. but they are optimized to run in portrait mode

[archen]

Thats right. mine aren't SFT screens. but they are optimized to run in portrait mode

Ahhh.. I thought your's was SFT. So your LED is doing OK in portrait even though its not SFT?

[archen]

I just talked to a dealer in Sweden. $398 for NL10276BC24-21. $20 for the driver. Then I guess I just need a cable and some interface from LVDS to DVI?

Is that correct?

[mickc]

Yes. mine are fine in portrait, they do something with the layering of the screen to make it work better that way.

If by "driver" he means the driver board, then you just need the LVDS cable and a power supply for the board.  It should have VGA and / or DVI ports on the board.

[archen]

I guess inverter board is a better name. This one he suggested:
http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/technologies/semiconductors/lcd-display-solutions/inverters/Pages/8002256-104PW03F.aspx?IM=0

[ivar hestnes]

Theres a lot of stuff you need.
- LCD panel
- inverter / LED Driver (depends on what kind of backlighting on panel)
- Controller card (DVI/VGA input board)
- various cables.
- OSN kit if you want operable menu for the display
- Power supply + cable

And datasheets. You really want to make sure that the jumpers on controller card is correct for the display voltages. Digitalview has good descriptions for their products on their website.

[archen]

Hello Ivar,
Thanks again! Something like this?

-LCD Panel: NL10276BC24-21
-Inverter/LED Driver: 104PW03F
-Controller card: ALR-1400
-OSN-kit: Available as accesory to the controllercard
-Power supply 12/24vdc

/Anders

[ivar hestnes]

Something like that Anders. + LVDS cable + led driver cable + inverter cable also I think (inverter cable is the same for inverterboard/led driver. 
I also recommend to get the digitalview 426013800-3 Power cable if you choose the ALR 1400. Then you are ready to use a Jack plug for supply.

[archen]

Many thanks again Ivar. You have been great help!

I'll send digital view a email and get a quote.

I'll keep you guys updated on the progress.