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Are TV's the way?

Started by rhysb, September 17, 2012, 02:01:06 PM

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HarryZ

It's always a tough decision on what direction to go with home sims.  Pros and cons with monitors vs projectors/curved screens.

This past summer I upgraded my single projector/flat wall view with a curved 135 degree/3 projector view and TH2G using Warpalizer. Now I learn that the Nvidia 600 series GPUs can by pass the TH2G so I will likely go that route and sell my Nvidia 570 GPU and TH2G.

I was at the I/ITSEC military simulation conference in Orlando last week and saw what high resolution projection can give.  CAE had a display with a C130 taxiing in snow at CYUL ...unbelievable!!  Then when you spend about $ 10,000 for a projector that's what you can expect :-)))

Of course I forgot my camera in the hotel room and didn't take any pics :-(((

On a happy note, I flew 3 very basic sim set-ups and was told I was the only person who knew what they were doing. :-)))

Harry
Harry
Flight Plus Software LTD
London, ON   Canada
airsim@flightplus.ca
Toll Free 1-866-662-0985

Sam Llorca

Hi Harry, I was there too and I was impressed with all the hardware and projection systems, I flew both Boeing sims on the trailers, awesome! I'm thinking upgrading my projectors with Barco ones. Also had a great time with Linda Lack from Simphonics sound. Great people!

HarryZ

Hi Sam....I was there on Tuesday and up to that point the show was quite quiet. Apparently the US military people decided a couple of weeks before the show they would not be attending in force like previous years. I saw more Canadian military people roaming around!

Briefly looked at the Simphonics sound display...VERY high end.

Let's just say that most devices there were beyond my price range.

Harry

Harry
Flight Plus Software LTD
London, ON   Canada
airsim@flightplus.ca
Toll Free 1-866-662-0985

Sam Llorca

I agree with you, very expensive, I was there monday from 2 to 6pm, like you said, lots of military specially from Braziland Canada, but I was like a kid on a candy store, super happy, had a lot of fun, I totally forgot to send you my phone number to get together, sorry about that,  take care Harry nice talking to you.

jskibo

Guess I'm all in on TV's now. Just ordered my other two Panasonic P60U50 Plasmas.  Now figuring out how to mount these things is going to be fun
Sim 1:  F16, running Falcon 4 BMS - In Build using a mix of real and repro parts + Pokeys cards
Sim 2:  Light Twin / Single with RusCool EFD1000, RSG GTN750 and FI guages

XOrionFE

Well,

I bit the bullet.  My projectors are down and TVs are up.  I went with Samsung 60" LEDs.  I have always been a Samsung fan and have one of their 60" plasmas for a year now in my living room which I really enjoy.    I went with LED for the sim however mainly for two reasons.  One, plasmas get really hot where LEDs stay very cool.    Second, the LEDs consume around half the power of plasmas.   I don't find any issues with the motion so far and the blacks at night are awesome which I was a little concerned about but really probably wouldn't notice unless I put side by side to the plasma.

Anyway, the real thing is that I am in love with the clarity and contrast which is just night and day difference from the projectors.  Yes I see bezels and it doesn't fully wrap around but who cares, the visuals and simplicity and a whole bunch of other things make this the best setup I believe.   I will not cry watching my projectors ship to their buyer (already have them sold).

I made stands in one day.  I went to Home Depot and bought 2 ten foot 2" pieces of black pipe which where threaded on each end.  Had them cut in half so I had 4 5ft pieces.   Then I bought 2 inch pipe flanges and in the lumber section you can buy 1" thick round pine boards disks.  I mounted the pipe flanges to these with bolts so they become the bases, offset the flange from center so the tv weight is distributed toward the larger part of the wood base.   To hold TVs on the pipes I mounted a 12"x30" piece of 3/4" plywood using two 2" inch U bolts.  This allows the whole board to be adjust infinitely up or down on the post.   To the board I attached a 60" tv wall mount that includes ability to easily hang tv and remove, tilt, and slight rotate for adjustment.   Got them at best buy. Made by Sanus VMPL50A-B1

This only took about 3 hours to make these mounts and stands and cost me what one premade would have cost.   They work perfect and are very sturdy.   Make larger base if you want even more safety.  Mine are pretty hard to get to in front of the nose so I am not worried about kids running into them or anything.

Anyway. I am flying and love it!  Like a whole new sim.

  ;D

Scott

sagrada737

Good news Scott!!!  From the tone of your post, it seems that this is a very pleasing result.  The added clarity and detail of the LED monitors makes one consider the benefit of projection displays - excluding the seamless wrap around effect that projection provides of course.

Anyway, congratulations on once again leading the way for the rest of us.  Post a video of the setup soon.

Mike
P3d v4.5x with Sim-Avionics (two computers), FDS MIP, 3-Optoma HD GT1080HD projection 120 deg. display driven by a single EVGA Nvidia GTX-1080Ti Water Cooled.  6dof Motion Platform using BFF 6dof motion software, driven by a Thanos Servo Controller to 6.2 KW Servos.

N737AG

January 14, 2013, 04:38:21 AM #132 Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 04:39:03 AM by N737AG
Hi Scott

It would be absolutely awesome if you could do your Innsbruck approach video again with your new visuals for real good comparison.

Axel

goof2092

mac bookpro, 4GB RAM, 2.4GHz Core i5, Mac OSX 10.6.8.
x-plane 10.25, sioc, uipcx, flywithLua, Teensyduino

XOrionFE

Quote from: N737AG on January 14, 2013, 04:38:21 AM
Hi Scott

It would be absolutely awesome if you could do your Innsbruck approach video again with your new visuals for real good comparison.

Axel

I could but it wouldn't be the same since I run X-plane now but as soon as I have the TQ finished and get another pilot over I will shoot a video.

In the meantime I will post a little video I just took showing setup later this morning.  Have to get to work :-)

Scott

rhysb

Sounds ace Scott, looking forward to seeing this result! Did you use the latest samsungs with the tiny bezel? We have four of them in our boardroom making one big screen, problem is I can't sneak them out in my pocket!!
One wheel landings, tail scrapes... just doing my best!!
737 classic sim. Xplane 10 64bit on 3 i5 pc's. FDS IBL overhead, FDS CDU's & CCU's, Simvionics Panels, CP Flight MCP/EFIS, engravity & homemade MIP, prosim737, project magenta, GLB interior panels.

XOrionFE


jskibo

Awesome videos.  60"s are perfect, glad I opted for that over the 55".

Really ingenious stands you made there.  Samsung shows your LED's without the base at 57lbs, my Plasmas are 70lbs so looks like that will work well.  May find a way to tie the bottom inot the base for added safety in my location.
Sim 1:  F16, running Falcon 4 BMS - In Build using a mix of real and repro parts + Pokeys cards
Sim 2:  Light Twin / Single with RusCool EFD1000, RSG GTN750 and FI guages

Maurice

I LOVE the clarity. This beats projection by far in my opinion even with the bezels and not a full wraparound. As I said before, if I were to start again, that is the way I would go and that is after having lived with full wraparound for 2 years. Clarity with a smaller field beats fuzziness with wraparound.

I'm sure some will still disagree but until you've lived with the fuzziness of projectors for a while, you may never be able to fully understand how bothersome it becomes. And you can add to that the fact you will never have to replace projector bulbs or deal with dead projector pixels which multiply like rabbits after one shows up.

Verdict is totally clear for me....TVs all the way :)

Maurice
Gravenhurst, Ontario - Canada

blueskydriver

Hi Scott,

Sent you some emails... Say, can you watch the second youtube video from an ipad? I can watch the part 1, but part 2 gives a playback error. Anyone with an ipad, would you verify this for me?

I must say, you make it very hard not to switch over to LCD TV screens. Here are some questions for you:

How much did each unit cost by the way?
Which model of Samsung did you get?
How did you hook them up, HDMI or DVI?
This is 3 computers using Xplane, with each one having an LCD hooked to it right?
Is this still with NTHUSIM or just through Xplane for any warping?
Have you tried it through FSX yet, if not, will you do so just to get a look at it?

Okay, no more questions...  Otherwise, just email me back.

John
| FSX | FDS-MIP OVRHD SYS CARDS FC1| PM | PMDG 737-700 | UTX | GEX | UT7 | ASE | REX2 | AES | TSR | IS | TOPCAT | AvilaSoft EFB | OC CARDS & OVRHD GAUGES| SIMKITS | SW 3D Lights | FS2CREW2010 | FSXPassengers | Flight1 AE | MATROX TH2GO-D | NTHUSIM | 3-Mits EW230Ust Proj |

jskibo

I'll try it soon on Prepar3d if Scott doesn't get to it.

Not sure what Scott paid, but my Panasonic 60's were $810 delivered.

I'll use a DVI to HDMI like I use on the smaller pit triple 40's
Sim 1:  F16, running Falcon 4 BMS - In Build using a mix of real and repro parts + Pokeys cards
Sim 2:  Light Twin / Single with RusCool EFD1000, RSG GTN750 and FI guages

Maurice

John,

I watched both videos on my Ipad,

Maurice
Gravenhurst, Ontario - Canada

Maurice

John,

Not speaking for Scott but there would be no point using Nthusim with TVs. Why would you need to warp anything? With flat screens and projectors, Nthusim would still be useful to line up the edges but with TVs and any size bezel, I don't see how it would help. I could be wrong of course but I don't think so :)

Maurice
Gravenhurst, Ontario - Canada

fsaviator

Very nice Scott.  The clarity is amazing.  that is the only downfall with my projectors.

I really need to find a reason to come out to Illinois and visit you and your sim.
Warren "FSAviator"
http://www.B737NG-Sim.com  |  https://www.facebook.com/fsaviator/
P3D45/ Prosim737 2/ ACE Dual-linked Yokes/ RevSim Proline TQ and Dual-linked Rudders/ CPFlight MCP PRO3 and EFIS'; MIP737ICS_FULL and SIDE737; Forward and Aft Overheads; Pedestal/ FDS MIP

blueskydriver

Hi Maurice,

Yeah, I was thinking NTHUSIM was not needed either, but started thinking about edges and/or blending. So, I figure I'd ask Scott just to find out...

About Bezels, has anyone thought about removing them yet? I know some people have done it for the MIP monitors...I have, but why or why not on the LCD Displays? Also, Scott mentioned 5 LCD screens, so will that be 5 computers or 3 with 2 of them performing in a dual head or dual card mode?

Seeing Scott's new setup is going to cause a lot of rethinking and redoing. Maybe not you Maurice or myself, but since seeing is believeing...Scott nailed it.

John
| FSX | FDS-MIP OVRHD SYS CARDS FC1| PM | PMDG 737-700 | UTX | GEX | UT7 | ASE | REX2 | AES | TSR | IS | TOPCAT | AvilaSoft EFB | OC CARDS & OVRHD GAUGES| SIMKITS | SW 3D Lights | FS2CREW2010 | FSXPassengers | Flight1 AE | MATROX TH2GO-D | NTHUSIM | 3-Mits EW230Ust Proj |

jackpilot

probably a dumb question:
TVs= more pixels= performance hit?


Jack

jskibo

Warranty is probably the best reason for not pulling bezels off. 

On my 19" one the mount was integral to the case, when I pulled the bezels there was no way to mount them.  Leaving the back on would be fine pressed against the MIP, but on a stand, they would fall out of the frame.
Sim 1:  F16, running Falcon 4 BMS - In Build using a mix of real and repro parts + Pokeys cards
Sim 2:  Light Twin / Single with RusCool EFD1000, RSG GTN750 and FI guages

jskibo

Quote from: jackpilot on January 14, 2013, 10:36:28 AM
probably a dumb question:
TVs= more pixels= performance hit?

1920 x 1080 each, same hit as hi res projectors. Screen span is 5769 x 1080. I've done it with three 23 inch screens and three 40" screens now on the small pit.  I5 runs them fine over clocked.
Sim 1:  F16, running Falcon 4 BMS - In Build using a mix of real and repro parts + Pokeys cards
Sim 2:  Light Twin / Single with RusCool EFD1000, RSG GTN750 and FI guages

sagrada737

Scott's recent change to LED displays and his video demonstration really seals the deal for me.  I have been going back and forth in my mind over the pros/cons of projection vs. 3-monitors, and I have come to the conclusion that it is hard to have both worlds - that is, wrap-around and seamless display and the clarity that monitors provide (without spending a small fortune for high-end projectors and ultra high-contrast screens).

Based on Scott's results, I will go the LED monitor route with my TH2G setup.

By the way...  Here is a short video of my current setup using three 27" LCD monitors running TH2G.  Not as fancy as Scott's setup, since I don't have my sim built, but you get the idea of a smaller (low budget) monitor setup.  This video was primarily done to show Scott the performance on my FSX computer with Sim-Avionics 7237NG - testing MegaSceneryEarth IL 2.0.

FSX MegaSceneryEarth IL 2.0 70fps

I'm glad to have made the decision to go with LED monitors.  The latest Samsung SilverStar series comes with a 3/8" bezel (albeit with a slightly higher price for the same 60").

Mike
P3d v4.5x with Sim-Avionics (two computers), FDS MIP, 3-Optoma HD GT1080HD projection 120 deg. display driven by a single EVGA Nvidia GTX-1080Ti Water Cooled.  6dof Motion Platform using BFF 6dof motion software, driven by a Thanos Servo Controller to 6.2 KW Servos.

Maurice

Mike,

With 70fps, I am assuming this is one front view spread over 3 monitors with THG as opposed to 3 undocked views, correct?
Anyway, I am sure you've made the right decision to forget about projectors.

Maurice
Gravenhurst, Ontario - Canada

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